RCC kills everyone in Europe

"As early as the 1800's we had our first 1 Billion people on the planet living at one single time. "

One problem with this statement. To my understanding the inquisition and any deaths attributed to it went on in 7 countries. You can't take the worlds population and say that is the number we are going to use as evidence that there were enough people. There were likely enough people in Europe over the time frame but it is my estimation that the Church would have had to kill at least half of them. So I don't agree with Bob's premise. I do think Mike's estimation that all would have had to have been killed takes a snapshot view of the population and therefore underestimates the number of people whom could have been involved. Correct me if I am wrong Mike.

Blessings

 

See, this argument only works if you agree that it applies. Your church is making the claim that it does apply, so I am demanding that they stay consistant with their own claims. They must adhere to that claim even when it doesn't benefit your church. I am merely pointing out that if you claim that catholic church has an unbroken line of apostolic successionism then people should realize that simply means you had bodies in a seat in Rome (and even that is debateable), not necessarily men who followed God.

If you want to agree with us that your church isn't responsible because you believe in the preisthood of the believer than by all means welcome aboard! Of course that proves that your church has no authority. Otherwise your church MUST be willing to take responsibility for ALL the actions of it's past leaders, not just those that it wants to remember.

~Lorelei

 

Exactly which actions of exactly which past leaders are you referring to?

What exactly would constitute taking responsibilty?

 

Questions were not answered.

I will read this later when I get some more time hopefully this evening. From what I have skimmed, I still do not see any "specifics" mentioned.

Can you answer this. Are there any ealier documents that deal with these issues? I mean, these crimes happened so long ago, surely this isn't the first time the church felt the need to finally apologize for the "sinfulness of her children?" (whatever that is supposed to mean...which sins????)

Partly because the doctrine of papal infallibilty hasn't been around that long.

~Lorelei

 

Are you denying that your church has done anything wrong? Surely your pope apologized for something, but like you, I can't tell just exactly what past sins he was referring to either.

You seem to be only willing to admit a sin if you are face to face with a specific accusation with it. However, your church's official apology will not give us any specifics in return. How hypocritical is that?

~Lorelei

 

Huh? The Church has made several apologies.

You want more.

Usually when someone wants an apology they want one for a specific event, action, word, whtever.

You just want an apolgy?

Ok, I apologize.

You admit that you haven't read any Church documents that would contaian such an apology. So who is being hypocritical here?

BTW what will it take for you to be satisfied? A personal phone call from the Pope apologizing for the neighbor's dog barking last night?

 

See, this argument only works if you agree that it applies. Your church is making the claim that it does apply, so I am demanding that they stay consistant with their own claims. They must adhere to that claim even when it doesn't benefit your church. I am merely pointing out that if you claim that catholic church has an unbroken line of apostolic successionism then people should realize that simply means you had bodies in a seat in Rome (and even that is debateable), not necessarily men who followed God.

If you want to agree with us that your church isn't responsible because you believe in the preisthood of the believer than by all means welcome aboard! Of course that proves that your church has no authority. Otherwise your church MUST be willing to take responsibility for ALL the actions of it's past leaders, not just those that it wants to remember.

~Lorelei </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I see, if you claim a link then it is there and everyone should pick at it, if you don't claim something it isn't true. I.e. that the Baptists today are not responsible for anything the KKK did. Wonder if Ted Bundy could have gotten off on that defense. Lor, your a hute (hoot in norwegian which I are). What do you want us to do Lor, bring the people back to life? The venom and hatred in your post goes along way toward showing just how those ridiculous estimates of 50 to 100 million came about. But once again you don't decry the people who make such riducoulous methods other then a statement saying "oh they shouldn't break the 8th commandment either". Start a thread Lor. Protestants this very day are maligning the Catholic Church or is that okay with you as long as it is people you hate (and you do hate us Lor). Show that it is not just out of hatred for Catholics that you dig and pick at the scab.

Blessings

 

Even Pope John Paul acknowledged the slaughter of multi-thousands of people who did not believe the Roman Catholic dogma. He expressed regret; that's more than we hear from his constituents on this board. I wonder how new converts and old Catholics feel about representing a church that had to 'strong arm' other Christians? The Inquisition is a fact and "Foxe's Book of Marytrs" is not on the best sellers list at the local Catholic book store.

We do know how the Lord God feels about such a church. Our Lord expressed it in the words of the Apostle John. His expression of Divine truth goes like this. 'And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus; and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.' The word admiration in the Greek is, {thauma} suggesting wonder, amazement or consternation.

God's advice in Revelation 18:4 is to 'Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not her plagues.'

 

ZZZZ .... Give it a rest Ray. I have expressed my lament over the wrongs of Catholics who have committed atrocities in the past. What do you want me to do beyone that? Would you say the same on this board about the Baptists and the KKK.

 

Ray,

By the way, you point the finger at the Catholics on this board for what you percieve as silence on these issues. I will make the same point I have been makinging throughout the thread. It is our human perception that "thou shalt not kill" is a greater crime than "thou shalt not bear false witness". Yet God put it on the same level, i.e. a commandment. You see, I think God sees how bearing false witness can kill a man's soul, thus it is much more serious than we have a tendency (myself included) make it out to be. Now perhaps you can show me where in scripture it is okay to violate this commandement if it serves what you percieve to be the truth. I don't see it in there myself. Perhaps your silence on the issue to date will bring the plagues upon you?

Blessings

PS. hadn't notice that Foxe's BOM was in the canonized scriptures. Perhaps you could submit it as a candiate for canonization. Funny how it leaves out the atrocieties of the reformers. Also go to Catholic.com. They do a bang up job of showing that the Whore of Babylon is not the Catholic Church. Just do a search on whore and you will find several conclusive articles. Blessings. It would sure seem you as a "true Christian" would take bearing false witness much more seriously and stop spreading the lies of anti-catholicism. Guess not.

 

ROMANISM AND THE
REFORMATION
by H. Grattan Guiness ( Excerpts )

Here in this paper I have some of the ashes of the martyrs, some of theirburned bones. I have bits of rusted iron and melted lead which I took myself with these hands from the Quemadero in Madrid, the place where they burned the martyrs, not far from the Inquisition. It was in the year 1870 that I visited it, just before the great ecumenical council was held at Rome, by which the pope was proclaimed infallible. I was in Spain that spring, and visited the newly opened Quemadero. I saw the ashes of the martyrs. I carried away with me some relics from that spot, which are now lying upon this table. Hear me, though in truth I scarcely know how to speak upon this subject. I am almost dumb with horror when I think of it. I have visited the places in Spain, in France, in Italy most deeply stained and dyed with martyr-blood. I have visited the valleys of Piedmont. I have stood in the shadow of the great cathedral of Seville, on the spot where they burned the martyrs, or tore them limb from limb. I have stood breast-deep in the ashes of the martyrs of Madrid. I have read the story of Rome’s deeds. I have waded through many volumes of history and of martyrology. I have visited, either in travel or in thought, scenes too numerous for me to name,where the saints of God have been slaughtered by Papal Rome, that great butcher of bodies and of souls. I cannot tell you what I have seen, what I


have read, what I have thought. I cannot tell you what I feel. Oh, it is a bloody tale! I have stood in that valley of Lucerna where dwelt the faithful Waldenses, those ancient Protestants who held to the pure gospel all through the dark ages, that lovely valley with its pine-clad slopes which Rome converted into a slaughter-house. Oh, horrible massacres of gentle, unoffending, noble-minded men! Oh, horrible massacres of tender women and helpless children! Yes, ye hated them, ye hunted them, ye stuck them on spits, ye impaled them, ye hanged them, ye roasted them, ye flayed them, ye cut them in pieces, ye violated them, ye violated the women, ye violated the children, ye forced flints into them, and stakes, and stuffed them with gunpowder, and blew them up, and tore them asunder limb from limb, and tossed them over precipices, and dashed them against the rocks; ye cut them up alive, ye dismembered them; ye racked, mutilated, burned, tortured, mangled, massacred holy men, sainted women, mothers, daughters, tender children, harmless babes, hundreds, thousands, thousands upon thousands; ye sacrificed them in heaps, in hecatombs, turning all Spain, Italy, France, Europe, Christian Europe, into a slaughter-house, a charnel house, an Akeldama. Oh, horrible; too horrible to think of! The sight dims, the heart sickens, the soul is stunned in the presence of the awful spectacle. O harlot, gilded harlot, with brazen brow and brazen heart! red are thy garments, red thine hands. Thy name is written in this book. God has written it. The world has read it. Thou art a murderess, O Rome. Thou art the murderess Babylon - “Babylon the Great,” drunken, foully drunken; yea, drunken with the sacred blood which thou hast shed in streams and torrents, the blood of saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. Were there naught else by which to recognize thee, O persecuting Church of Rome, this dreadful mark would identify thee. This is thy brand; by this we know thee. Thou art that foretold Babylon. We know thee by thy place. We know thee by thy proud assumptions, by the throne on which thou sittest, by those seven hills, by the beast thou ridest, by the garments thou wearest, by the cup thou bearest, by the name blazoned on thy forehead, by thy kingly paramours; by thy shameless looks, by thy polluted deeds; but oh, chiefly by this, by thy prolonged and dreadful persecution of the saints, by those massacres, by that Inquisition, by the fires of that burning stake. Mark how its ruddy flames ascend; see how its accusing smoke goes up to heaven!


In the sunny south of France, in Provence and Catalonia, lived the Albigenses. They were a civilized and highly educated people. Among these people there sprang up an extensive revival of true religion, and one of its natural effects was a bold testimony against the abominations of apostate Rome. Here is Sismondi’s History of the Albigenses. On page 7 he says of them and of the Vaudois: “All agreed in regarding the Church of Rome as having absolutely perverted Christianity, and in maintaining that it was she who was designated in the Apocalypse by the name of the whore of Babylon.” Rome could not endure this testimony; she drew her deadly sword and waged war against those who bore it. In the year 1208 the Albigenses were murderously persecuted. Innocent III (what a mockery his name!) employed the crusaders in this dreadful work. The war of extermination was denominated sacred. The pope’s soldiers prosecuted it with pious ardor; men, women, and children were all precipitated into the flames; whole cities were burned. In Beziers every soul was massacred; seven thousand dead bodies were counted in a single church, where the people had taken refuge; the whole country was laid waste; an entire people was slaughtered, and the eloquent witness of these early reformers was reduced to the silence of the sepulcher.


This folio volume is a faithful history of the Waldenses, written 217 years ago, by the Waldensian pastor Leger. It contains his portrait. I have often looked at it with interest. The countenance is scarred with suffering, but full of spiritual light. Leger tells with simple clearness the story of the Waldenses from the earliest times, quoting from ancient and authentic documents. He gives in full their confession of faith, and narrates the history of their martyrdoms, including the dreadful massacre in the vale of Lucerna, in 1655, of which he himself was an eye witness. This book was written only fourteen years after that massacre. It contains numerous depositions concerning it, rendered on oath, and long lists of the names of those who were its victims. It gives also plates depicting the dreadful ways in which they were slaughtered. These plates represent men, women, and children being dismembered, disemboweled, ripped up, run through with swords, impaled on stakes, torn limb from limb, flung from precipices, roasted in flames. They are almost too horrible to look at. And this was only one of a long series of massacres of the Waldenses extending through 600 painful years.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Fox's book of Martyrs
CHAPTER IV
Papal Persecutions


At Orleans, a thousand were slain of men, women, and children, and six thousand at Rouen.
At Meldith, two hundred were put into prison, and later brought out by units, and cruelly murdered.
At Lyons, eight hundred were massacred. Here children hanging about their parents, and parents affectionately embracing their children, were pleasant food for the swords and bloodthirsty minds of those who call themselves the Catholic Church. Here three hundred were slain in the bishop's house; and the impious monks would suffer none to be buried.
At Augustobona, on the people hearing of the massacre at Paris, they shut their gates that no Protestants might escape, and searching diligently for every individual of the reformed Church, imprisoned and then barbarously murdered them. The same curelty they practiced at Avaricum, at Troys, at Toulouse, Rouen and many other places, running from city to city, towns, and villages, through the kingdom.

"In the meantime, all the friends of Coligny were assassinated throughout Paris; men, women, and children were promiscuously slaughtered and every street was strewed with expiring bodies. Some priests, holding up a crucifix in one hand, and a dagger in the other, ran to the chiefs of the murderers, and strongly exhorted them to spare neither relations nor friends.
"This horrid butchery was not confined merely to the city of Paris. The like orders were issued from court to the governors of all the provinces in France; so that, in a week's time, about one hundred thousand Protestants were cut to pieces in different parts of the kingdom! Two or three governors only refused to obey the king's orders. One of these, named Montmorrin, governor of Auvergne, wrote the king the following letter, which deserves to be transmitted to the latest posterity.
"SIRE: I have received an order, under your majesty's seal, to put to death all the Protestants in my province. I have too much respect for your majesty, not to believe the letter a forgery; but if (which God forbid) the order should be genuine, I have too much respect for your majesty to obey it."

At Rome the horrid joy was so great, that they appointed a day of high festival, and a jubilee, with great indulgence to all who kept it and showed every expression of gladness they could devise! and the man who first carried the news received 1000 crowns of the cardinal of Lorraine for his ungodly message. The king also commanded the day to be kept with every demonstration of joy, concluding now that the whole race of Huguenots was extinct.

At Bordeaux, at the instigation of a villainous monk, who used to urge the papists to slaughter in his sermons, two hundred and sixty-four were cruelly murdered; some of them senators. Another of the same pious fraternity produced a similar slaughter at Agendicum, in Maine, where the populace at the holy inquisitors' satanical suggestion, ran upon the Protestants, slew them, plundered their houses, and pulled down their church.

At Penna, after promising them safety, three hundred were inhumanly butchered; and five and forty at Albia, on the Lord's Day. At Nonne, though it yielded on conditions of safeguard, the most horrid spectacles were exhibited. Persons of both sexes and conditions were indiscriminately murdered; the streets ringing with doleful cries, and flowing with blood; and the houses flaming with fire, which the abandoned soldiers had thrown in. One woman, being dragged from her hiding place with her husband, was first abused by the brutal soldiers, and then with a sword which they commanded her to draw, they forced it while in her hands into the bowels of her husband.

At Samarobridge, they murdered above one hundred Protestants, after promising them peace; and at Antsidor, one hundred were killed, and cast part into a jakes, and part into a river. One hundred put into a prison at Orleans, were destroyed by the furious multitude.

The Protestants at Rochelle, who were such as had miraculously escaped the rage of hell, and fled there, seeing how ill they fared who submitted to those holy devils, stood for their lives; and some other cities, encouraged thereby, did the like. Against Rochelle, the king sent almost the whole power of France, which besieged it seven months; though by their assaults, they did very little execution on the inhabitants, yet by famine, they destroyed eighteen thousand out of two and twenty. The dead, being too numerous for the living to bury, became food for vermin and carnivorous birds. Many took their coffins into the church yard, laid down in them, and breathed their last. Their diet had long been what the minds of those in plenty shudder at; even human flesh, entrails, dung, and the most loathsome things, became at last the only food of those champions for that truth and liberty, of which the world was not worthy. At every attack, the besiegers met with such an intrepid reception, that they left one hundred and thirty-two captains, with a proportionate number of men, dead in the field. The siege at last was broken up at the request of the duke of Anjou, the king's brother, who was proclaimed king of Poland, and the king, being wearied out, easily complied, whereupon honorable conditions were granted them.

The tragical sufferings of the Protestants are too numerous to detail; but the treatment of Philip de Deux will give an idea of the rest. After the miscreants had slain this martyr in his bed, they went to his wife, who was then attended by the midwife, expecting every moment to be delivered. The midwife entreated them to stay the murder, at least till the child, which was the twentieth, should be born. Notwithstanding this, they thrust a dagger up to the hilt into the poor woman. Anxious to be delivered, she ran into a corn loft; but hither they pursued her, stabbed her in the belly, and then threw her into the street. By the fall, the child came from the dying mother, and being caught up by one of the Catholic ruffians, he stabbed the infant, and then threw it into the river

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

The Trail of Bloodby J. M. Carroll

2. Let's go back just a little. The Catholic Church by its many departures from New Testament teachings, its many strange and cruel laws, and its desperately low state of morals, and its hands and clothes reeking with the blood of millions of martyrs, has become obnoxious and plainly repulsive to many of its adherents, who are far better than their own system and laws and doctrines and practices
3. It is well to note, however, that for many centuries prior to this great reformation period, there were a number of noted characters, who rebelled against the awful extremes of the Catholic -- and earnestly sought to remain loyal to the Bible -- but their bloody trail was about all that was left of them. We come now to study for awhile this most noted period -- the "Reformation."
18. But persecutions did not then cease. The hated Ana-Baptists (called Baptists today), in spite of all prior persecutions, and in spite of the awful fact that fifty million had already died martyr deaths, still existed in great numbers. It was during this period that along one single European highway, thirty miles distance, stakes were set up every few feet along this highway, the tops of the stakes sharpened, and on the top of each stake was placed a gory head of a martyred Ana-Baptist. Human imagination can hardly picture a scene so awful! And yet a thing perpetrated, according to reliable history, by a people calling themselves devout followers of the meek and lowly Jesus Christ.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

ROME'S BLOOD-BATH, BY J.H. HUNTER (1944)
ROME'S BLOOD-BATH, BY J.H. HUNTER
(From Panton's "The Dawn", 1944)

"It cannot be pressed home too often or too hard that the Woman on the Seven Hills is pictured as drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus (Rev.17:6), not in the Middle Ages, but in the moment of her judgment...the Papal principle that the Church must control the State, and then the State must exterminate all non-Catholics, has never fundamentally altered, and will once again operate openly. The martyrdoms Mr. Hunter depicts are but a photograph of those yet to come." - (D.M. Panton)

"The persecutions of the Church by Pagan Rome, though terrible and long continued, have been far exceeded by those perpetrated by Rome Papal. Pagan Rome never invented or employed such an engine of persecution as the INQUISITION! Pagan Rome persecuted for three hundred years; Papal Rome for double and treble that period. None can ever count the martyrs who suffered during the ages in which Papal Rome was 'drunken with the blood of the saints.' Bishop Newton says: - 'Who can make any computation, or even frame any conception of the number of pious Christians who have fallen a sacrifice to the bigotry and cruelty of Rome? Mede upon this place hath observed from good authorities that 'in the war with the Albigenses and Waldenses, there perished of these poor creatures in France alone a million.' From the first institution of the Jesuits to the year 1480, that is in little more than thirty years, nine hundred thousand orthodox Christians were slain. In the Netherlands alone, the Duke of Alva boasted that within a few years he had dispatched to the amount of thirty-six thousand souls, and those all by the hand of the common executioner. In the space of scarce thirty years, the Inquisition destroyed by various kinds of tortures a hundred and fifty thousand Christians. Sonders himself confesses that an innumerable multitude of Lollards and Sacramentarians were burnt throughout all Europe, who yet, he says, were not put to death by the Pope and bishops, but by the civil magistrates, which perfectly agrees with this prophecy, for of 'the secular beast' it is said that he should 'make war with the saints and overcome them.' (Newton's 'Dissertations on the Prophecies', p. 160).

Jean Leger, a learned and pious Waldensian pastor, was living at the time of the massacre of Lucerna. His valuable history of the Waldenses was written within fourteen years of that terrible event - only one massacre of the Waldenses, alas! among many...The following is an account of the massacre: - 'The length and breadth of the valley, its villages, its houses, its roads, and its rocks, were occupied by the assassins in the pay of the propaganda; and now these assassins were called upon to do their work. On Saturday, 24th April, 1655, at four o'clock in the morning, the signal for a general massacre of the Vaudois was given to the traitorous troops from the tower of the castle of La Torre. The soldiers, forewarned, had risen early, fresh with the sleep they had enjoyed under the roofs of those they were about to slaughter. The men whom, under the solemn engagement of security and protection, the Vaudios had fed and housed, were now on foot throughout the valley, converted, by the arts of Rome, from brave soldiers into cowardly assassins.'

'Young children,' writes Leger, 'were torn from their mothers' arms, dashed against the rocks, and their mangled remains cast on the road. Sick persons and old people, men and women, were burned alive in their houses, or hacked in pieces, or mutilated in horrible ways, or flayed alive, or exposed bound and dying to the sun's noontide heat, or to ferocious animals; some were stripped naked...Women and girls, after being fearfully outraged, were impaled on pikes and so left to die, planted at angles of the road; or they were buried alive...'

Moreover, that the afore-mentioned (people against whom said edict was issued, were no strange, unknown, erring spirits, but such peopl as are also in our day styled Anabaptists; this no only the inquisitor of Leeuwaerden, A. D. 1558 readily admitted, as has been shown in the prope place, but all the particulars of the last mentione authors make it almost as clear as the sun at midday, that this is the general opinion of the Roman ists. Nay, it appears that the edict of Honoriu and Theodosius was carried into execution, no only A. D. 413, and in some of the subsequen years, but that it was no small cause of the last great persecution of the Anabaptists, which began about A. D. 1524, through the strong urging of the Papists, especially of their clergy, who, to all appearance, by it induced the Emperor, Charles V to renew said edict against the Anabaptists of thei time, as being an identical people, and of the same faith, with those who lived in the time of Honoriu and Theodosius. At least, that many papistic magistrates put to death innumerable pious Anabaptis Christians, by virtue of said ancient edict of A. D. 413, appears with such certainty from various authors, that it cannot, with truth, be denied. Compare Seb. Franck, fol. 136, col. 3, with Marti Bellius, page 53.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Continuation of Dr. Halley's "Church History":

Albigenses or Carthari: In Southern France, Northern Spain and Northern Italy. Preached against the immoralities of the priesthood, pilgrimages, worship of saints and images; completely rejected the clergy and its claims; criticized church conditions; opposed the claims of the Church of Rome; made great use of the Scriptures; lived self denying lives and had great zeal for moral purity. By 1167 they embraced possibly a majority of the population of South France; by 1200 very numerous in North Italy. In 1208 a crusade was ordered by Pope Innocent III; a bloody war of extermination followed; scarcely paralleled in history; town after town was put to the sword and the inhabitants murdered without distinction of age or sex; in 1229 the Inquisition was established and within a hundred years the Albigenses were utterly rooted out.

IN THE NETHERLANDS: the Reformation was received early; Lutheranism, and then Calvinism; and Anabaptists were already numerous. Between 1513 and 1531 there were issued 25 different translations of the Bible in Dutch, Flemish and French. The Netherlands were a part of the dominion of Charles V. In 1522 he established the Inquisition, and ordered all Lutheran writings to be burned. In 1525 prohibited religious meetings in which the Bible would be read. 1546 prohibited the printing or possession of the Bible, either vulgate or translation. 1535 decreed "death by fire" for Anabaptists. Philip II (1566-98), successor to Charles V, re-issued the edicts of his father, and with Jesuit help carried on the persecution with still greater fury. By one sentence of the Inquisition the whole population was condemned to death, and under Charles V and Philip II more than 100,000 were massacred with unbelievable brutality. Some were chained to a stake near the fire and slowly roasted to death; some were thrown into dungeons, scourged, tortured on the rack, before being burned. Women were buried alive, pressed into coffins too small, trampled down with the feet of the executioner. Protestants of Netherlands, after incredible suffering, in 1609, won their independence; Holland, on the North became Protestant; Belgium, on the South, Roman Catholic. Holland was the first country to adopt public schools supported by taxation, and to legalize principles of religious toleration and freedom of the press.

In Bohemia: By 1600, in a population of 4,000,000, 80 per cent were Protestant. When

In Austria and Hungary: Half the population Protestant, but under the Hapsburgs and Jesuits they were slaughtered.

IN SPAIN: The Reformation never made much headway, because the Inquisition was already there. Every effort for freedom or independent thinking was crushed with a ruthless hand. Torquemada (1420-98), a Dominican monk, arch-inquisitor, in 18 years burned 10,200 and condemned to perpetual imprisonment 97,000. Victims were usually burned alive in the public square; made the occasion of religious festivities. From 1481 to 1808 there were at least 100,000 martyrs and 1,500,000 banished. "In the 16th and 17th centuries the Inquisition extinguished the literary life of Spain, and put the nation almost outside the circle of European civilization." When the Reformation began Spain was the Most Powerful country in the world.

RELIGIOUS WARS: The Reformation movement was followed by a hundred years of religious war:
War on the German Protestants (1546-55);
War on the Protestants of the Netherlands (1566-1609);
Huguenot Wars in France (1572-98);
Philips attempt against England (1588)
Thirty Years War (1618-48). In these wars political and national rivalries were involved, as well as questions of property, for the Church in most countries owned one-third to one-fifth of all lands. But every one of these wars was STARTED by Roman Catholic Kings, urged on by Pope and Jesuit, for the purpose of crushing Protestantism. They were the Aggressors. The Protestants were on the Defensive. Dutch, German nor French Protestants became Political Parties till after years of persecution.

PAPAL PERSECUTIONS: The number of Martyrs under Papal Persecutions far outnumbered the Early Christian Martyrs under Pagan Rome: hundreds of thousands among the Albigenses, Waldenses, and Protestants of Germany, Netherlands, Bohemia and other countries. It is common to excuse the Popes in this matter by saying that it was the "spirit of the age." Whose age was it? and who made it so? The Popes. It was their world. For 1000 years they had been training the world to be in subjection to them. If the Popes had not taken the Bible from the people, the people would have known better, and it would NOT have been "the spirit of the age." It was NOT the spirit of Christ, and "Vicars of Christ" should have known better. Persecution is the spirit of the DEVIL, even though carried on in the name of Christ.
Calvin consented to the death of Servetus. In Holland Calvinists executed an Arminian. In Germany Lutherans put to death a few Anabaptists. In England Protestant Edward VI executed 2 Roman Catholics in 6 years (Romanist Mary in the 5 following years burned 282 Protestants). Elizabeth executed, in 45 years 187 Romanists, most of them for treason, not heresy. In Massachusetts, 1659, 3 Quakers were hanged by Puritans, and, in 1692, 20 were executed for witchcraft. All told a few hundred martyrs may be charged against Protestants, at most not over a few thousand; but to Rome, untold millions. While the Reformation was a grand struggle for Religious Freedom, the Reformers were slow in granting to others what they sought for themselves. In Protestant countries Persecution ceased by 1700.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Kormo,

Ah, trail of Blood, that old classic of truth. "Paulicians were baptists. Don't mind that they rejected most of the New Testament including all of Paul's letters and believed in a dual God. Oh that's just what those who wrote about them at the time said about them. Trying to malign them. They were Baptists alrigt.". Every heretical group, no matter how fringe it was is claimed as baptists to try and link the Baptists back to Jesus Christ. It is false witnessing at it's finest. Kormo, your posts aren't even worth reading. (by the way I have read TOB). I was going to make Bob Ryan poster child for this thread but you just won the honor hands down. Once again something that God has put on the same level as killing (bearing false witness, because it kills souls), namely a commandment, is swept under the rug in order to malign anything Catholic with a shotgun approach such that perhaps something might stick. My guess is the number of breakers (in Protestantism) of your nineth commandment make the breakers of "thou shalt not kill" look like a small town pizza party. But gee, it's just a little old lie. God doesn't really mind. As mike said strike that nineth commandment. It doesn't apply when it comes to hatin Katherlics.

Thanks for stopping by.

Blessings to you.

Thess