how to know you're really saved?

Wopik,

what happens when you shipwreck your faith? I guess you are not saved anymore.

 

I thought there are cowboys in Edmonton

If I understand correctly so 'filled' is more than 'indwelt'. Right?

Could the indwelling happen prior to the Day of Pentecost? Could have somebody been saved prior to the Pentecost?

 

There are cowboys in Edmonton. In fact they are having a cattle drive right through the city tomorrow. I am just not one of those cowboys.

Correct. Only a believer (one who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit) can be filled with the Holy Spirit. Only a believer would, by the power of the Holy Spirit, be able to submit to Him in every way. That is how to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

No, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit commenced on the Day of Pentecost. It was a historic occaision, a day in hisory when the church age began, and the Holy Spirit came to indwell each believer.

Before Pentecost many people were "saved," in the same way we are--by believing in God.

Romans 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture?
3 Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Abraham was saved, not because of his works, but because he had faith in the God of the Bible--Jehovah. We are all saved the same way--by faith.
DHK

 

OK, so let me ask a few questions.

Could saved person of OT lose salvation?

Can saved indwelt person lose salvation?

Can saved filled person lose salvation?

 

I don't believe so. Salvation is the same in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament. The just shall live by faith.
Habakkuk 2:4 but the just shall live by his faith.

Salvation is by faith in God. Abraham was justified by faith.
Romans 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
--His works counted for nothing. It was his belief in God, his faith that saved him.

We often consider Lot a wicked man, having migrated into the city of Sodom, and when the Lord was about to destroy he offered his two virgin daughters to the homosexual men to abuse them and even kill them--all for the sake of the hospitality of two men (angels) that he was keeping at home. How wicked this man had become. Was he really saved? How could a saved man even think of sacrifing his own daughters to a howling mob of homosexuals in this way?? And yet the Bible says about Lot:

2 Peter 2:7-8 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
--Although he was wicked, and appeared to live a wicked lifestyle the Bible says that he was righteous--a saved man. How can this be accounted for. When Lot lived with Abraham, he believed on the same God of Abraham. He followed the same God as Abraham. I doubt if he ever lost his faith, though his soul was "vexed" with the filthy behaviour of the wicked from day to day with their unlawful deeds.

When Saul became the King of Israel, he was chosen because of his stature--his physical features--not because of his spiritual qualities. He was head and shoulders above everyone that was in the nation, and therefore pleased the nation of Israel highly. But as time went on, one can see that Saul was not a spiritual man. He disobeyed Samuel's command. He tried to take the place of a priest which he could not do. He went to a witch and tried to raise Samuel from the dead--an act punishable by death, and strictly forbidden by Jehovah. He was earlier constantly oppressed by demons which were only alleviated by the playing of David's harp. He finally died an untimely death, and the kingdom was taken away from his family. I do not believe that Saul was a saved man.

On the other hand, it in contrast to Saul, the Scripture specifically says concerning David that God does not look upon the outward appearance, but on the heart. God chose David, because David was a man after God's own heart. He definitely was a saved man, and even though he sinned, he repented of his sin. He never lost his salvation. I don't believe that a believer (OT or NT) can lose their salvation.

No. The gift of God is eternal life. (Romans 6:23; Eph. 2:8,9; John 10:27-30)
If eternal life could be lost it would not be eternal; it would only be temporal, and God would be found to be a liar. God does not lie. The gift of God is eternal life (not temporal).

A person filled with the Holy Spirit is a person who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. He is also being fully obedient to the Holy Spirit. Of course he cannot lose his salvation, for the same reason given above.
"There is therefore now no conedmnation to them that are in Christ Jesus." Rom.8:1)
DHK

 

So if I understand correctly Solomon was OK because he believed even though he disobeyed God.

It's OK to get 'saved' and then after a period of time to sin thinking God will forgive me anyway. Isn't this an example of blasphemy?

Please, answer this question honestly. Do you know somebody or you heard about somebody that the person appeared 'saved' and later you would say maybe he/she wasn't saved in the first place?

 

Nobody is perfect. We all disobey God, even as a Christian. That is why John wrote:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It is not a sin of blasphemy, but it is sin.
One that has a continual lifestyle of sin, is an indication that he is not really saved. Again John writes:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
--The meaning of "does not commit sin" has the sense of does not keep on committing sin, that is does not live in that same lifestyle of sin.

Consider:
If Lot lived in this NT dispensation, I would not consider him a saved individual, yet the Lord calls him a righteous man.

The Bible says "The Lord knows them that are his."

It also says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it." (Jer.17:9)

John also says:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

In the time of the Apostles that were those that were either false teachers or false believers that were unrecognizable to the early believers. Only in time did they come to recognize that they were not true believers, because after a period of time their false doctrine was exposed and they did not continue with the church, as John says.

Consider Judas Iscariot. After 3 years of faithful ministry with all 12 Apostles and Jesus Christ Himself, at the last supper Jesus said: "One of you shall betray me. Even those very close to Jesus such as Peter and John said: "Is it I," Is it I." They did not know after 3 years that Judas was only a pretender, having made a false pretender.

Man cannot know the heart. Only God knows. In time the heart usually manifests itself, but not always. Thus the warning from Jesus: "Beware of false prophets; they come to you as wolves in sheep's clothing...You shall know them by their fruits." Mat. 7:20
DHK

 

So, honestly, do you know somebody who you thought was saved and then you came to a conclusion that maybe it's not a case?

 

Jesus Christ Himself said, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21

 

Then, by your interpretation, none of us will inhierit the Kingdom of heaven, since we all fail on a regular basis to do the will of the Father.

 

No, you can't just "accept Jesus" in your heart and do nothing.

Even St. Paul admitted that he could lose his salvation:
Even St. Paul admitted that he could lose his salvation:
"...but I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps after preaching to others I myself should be rejected."
1Cor 9:27

Then there is Rom 11:22, "See, then, the goodness and the severity of GOD: His severity towards those who have fallen, but the goodness of GOD towards you if you abide in His goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off."

"I have confidence in you the Lord, that you will not think otherwise; but he who disturbs you will bear the penalty, whoever he may be." Gal 5:10

"But that servant who knew his masters will, and did not make ready for him and did not act according to his will, will be beaten with many stripes." Luke 12:47

"You therefore, brethren, since you know this beforehand, be on your guard lest, carried away by the error of the foolish, you fall away from your own steadfastness." 2Pet 3:17


"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are immorality, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, jealousies, anger, quarrels, factions, parties, envies, murders, drunkenness, carousings, and suchlike. AND CONCERNING THESE I WARN YOU, AS I HAVE WARNED YOU, THAT THEY WHO DO SUCH THINGS WILL NOT ATTAIN THE KINGDOM OF GOD." Gal 5:19-21


Perseverance in doing the will of the Father:
This virtue will bring us to our goal:

"...but he who has persevered to the end will be saved." Matt 10:22, 24:13

 

Then, like I said, by your interpretation, we're all doomed to not inhierit the Kingdom, since we all regularly fail to do the will of the Father.

 

Jasonik read my post. I answered your question with Scripture.
DHK

 

I read your post and as you said: "Man cannot know the heart. Only God knows." You are so right about this one.

You can not know that you are saved. Only God knows!

 

No, I can't know your heart. But I do know my heart. I do know when and where I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. I do know that when I believed it was no false profession of faith, and that I believed savingly that is out of the sincerity of my heart. Some people do make a false profession and then act it out. But how do I know who is being the hypocrite and who is not. I don't always know their heart, but I do know mine. I do know that I am saved, and on my way to Heaven.
If I were to die right now I am absolutely positive that I would go straight to heaven. All of my sins have been forgiven--past, present, and future. "There is therefore now no comdemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life."
It is as simple as thatt. What is the condition of your heart?
DHK

 

If you were to die right now you can not be absolutely positive that you would go straight to heaven. Only God knows! You don't! You can only believe! You are taking your faith too far. Actually then it wouldn't be a faith anymore. It would be a certainty.
You can have a reasoned assurance of salvation but not an absolute one.

 

Jasonik,
I don't have a religion. I have a relationship. Jesus Christ is a real person to me. His spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am His child. He talks to me and I with Him. He assures me through His written word that indeed I have eternal life.

I serve a risen Saviour
He's in the world today.
I know that He is living,
No matter what you say.
I see his hand of mercy,
I hear his voice of cheer.
And just the time I need Him,
He's always near.

He lives; He lives;
Salvation to impart.
You ask me how I know he lives?
He lives within my heart.
--Alfred Ackley

 

Well, still you have only reasoned assurance but not an absolute one.

 

1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
--I know I have the Son; I know I have eternal life. I am sorry that you do not have such assurance.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--John writes to those that have believed on the name of the Son of God (that includes me).

The reason: that ye may know that ye have eternal life. I don't have to guess about it, hope about it, wait til the last day; I KNOW that I have eternal life, and that if I should die today I would go straight to Heaven. I know that beyond any shadow of any doubt. You don't have to question me about it, because I know it to be true. I have that assurance, so why are you trying to tell me that I don't have what I do have?
DHK

 

By grace through faith.

What you are talking about is certainty. There is no place for faith. That's how it appears.