Tongues as Evidence

Yea i will but I hope that they dont get in trouble. Would not want to be the one to anything started with you and your cells. They can get pretty mean some times. ANd sometimes they like to group together and cause a huge lump of a mess. LOL if you know what i mean?

 

There is a good book called "A scriptual outline of the baptism in the Holy Spirit" by George and Harriet Gillies. Very good reading, and reveals alot.

Peace,
OD

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: ovrdose ]

 

Ok Lorelie and Don can i get you guys to post your orginal questions. I kind of got side tracked. Talk to you later

 

Just trying to offer some insight is all,no need to get all "baptist" on me lol... j/k
peace,
OD

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ovrdose:
There is a good book called "A scriptual outline of the baptism in the Holy Spirit" by George and Harriet Gillies. Very good reading, and reveals alot.

Peace,
OD

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: ovrdose ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OVRDOSE:
Would this book be for or against receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit of God gives the utterance?

If it is *for* it, does the book explain why it is a *must* for salvation? I doubt it goes in that direction, but I just had to ask.

MEE

 

The book does not support the baptism of the holy spirit as a must for Salvation. It just gives an outline of spcripture to support the receiving of it.. A very well wriitten, informative book. *2 thumbs up*
Let me just say this, I use to feel the way most feel on this thread. Then one revival service, it just hit me all at once. I had never done this before, never really believed it. It kinda reminded me of Paul, and the way he felt about christians until one day it hit him all of nowhere. Just my 2 cent's, I've never bragged about it and Iam not now. Just saying that it was something not staged, something very real, and very personal. Iam not bashing those who have a problem with, just trying to shed a different point of view is all. In case anyone is wondering I am a member of baptist church.
Peace,
OD

 

ONENESS, here it is again.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 Corinthians 12
4
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
7
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.

8
To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2]
11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't this chapter tell us that not everyone will speak in tongues?


---------------------

Here is a really good book that talks about speaking in tongues and how it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but never says it is the evidence of the Holy Spirit. It does mention about some of the instances where people spoke in tongues, but it never says that we all must do it.

Oh, you will have to search this book out for the info on tongues. Although this is actually a compilation of many books you will only find tongues mentioned in about 2 of them and only 3 chapters in each book even speak of it.

Happy Reading!



~Lorelei

 

quote:

1 Corinthians 12
4
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
7
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8
To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2]
11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

I don’t really know how to explain it. But from the scripture above it says that to one there is given…… to another…… to another…… so on and so forth.

Now How is that everyone has faith? If what your saying goes for tongues it would have to go for faith, wisdom, knowledge as well. But if you understand that there is a diffrence b/t the gift and the evidence. I will go more into this tonight when I get back.

But if you would do me a favor. Some one asked me a couple of weeks or days ago to read Corinthians as if Paul is condemning the use of tongues and that is it just used for the edification of the church and not ones self. If you could just read it as if you understand that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Ghost and how praying in tongues edifies your spirit.

Now the way I say things, please don’t think them as written in stone and that is how every UPC member believes. I don’t have a corner on all of this, and I don’t claim to. I just know that what takes place is real. Does the devil come along and try to whisper to me that it is just myself and that it has nothing to do with god? All the time. But the devil is a liar and the father of them.

Well I got to get to prayer. And I think I am going to try to go on a spiritual diet tomorrow if you want to join me Lorelie. (Fast). Just for anyone else who is reading this I am not saying this to brag just asking if anyone wants to reach out and come together and agreement on what we are praying for. God Bless

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

I don’t have a corner on all of this, and I don’t claim to. I just know that what takes place is real. Does the devil come along and try to whisper to me that it is just myself and that it has nothing to do with god? All the time. But the devil is a liar and the father of them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly sounds like your putting your experience above the importance of the Word of God. The devil is a master of deceit. He deceived Eve. He can deceive you--every time. What makes you think he cannot?
DHK

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It certainly sounds like your putting your experience above the importance of the Word of God. The devil is a master of deceit. He deceived Eve. He can deceive you--every time. What makes you think he cannot?
DHK <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To some it may seem that way if you do not understand what will happen to you when you receive the Holy Ghost.

To you you cant understand that if the bible does not say that they spoke in tongues does not mean that they did not. Like I said earlier it never says that they repented but you know and understand that they did.

Well i have to get ready for church I will comment today. Well.... Nevermind, I have to work today.

I will try to get back on here later tonight.

ANd one more thing DHK. Can you tell me a specific time and place when you received the Holy Ghost. And if you can then how do you know?

God Bless
Brian

 

“Like I said earlier it never says that they repented but you know and understand that they did.”
---I have seen you post this more than once. The Bible does teach repentance, and says it many times:

Rev.9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet REPENTED not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither REPENTED they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they REPENTED not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and REPENTED not of their deeds.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that REPENTETH, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no REPENTANCE.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that REPENTETH.

Luke 24:47 And that REPENTANCE and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give REPENTANCE to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted REPENTANCE unto life.
Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and TURNED unto the Lord.

Is this enough verses for you? There are many more that use the word “repent.” The Bible both teaches repentance and uses the word. In these last two verses in Acts 11, verse 21 gives the result and the definition both in the same verse. They turned unto the Lord. That is a good definition for repentance. It is a turning from a sinful life and a turning unto the Lord. God granted repentance unto them (verse 18).

Like Lorelei has been saying along: When there is no evidence, there is no evidence. If there was I think we would have seen some by now.

”ANd one more thing DHK. Can you tell me a specific time and place when you received the Holy Ghost. And if you can then how do you know?”

I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour on Oct.20, 1970 in Edmonton, Alberta at 8:00 in the evening. At that time the Holy Spirit came and dwelt within me. “The Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God.” (Rom. 8:16) I know I received the Holy Spirit because of the witness of His Spirit, and His witness is not false. I know because the Word of God tells me so, and His Word is not false.
Rom.8:15 “For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
---It is the Spirit that has adopted me into the family of God that enables me to call God “Father.” He enables me to have a right relationship with him; he enables me to have a strong prayer life where I am able to see direct answer to prayer; he enables me to speak out for Christ boldly in places where otherwise I would not speak out. I know because of the witness of the Spirit, because of the testimony of the Word of God, and also because of my own experiences, which I place last in this list. By that I mean how the Holy Spirit has guided and directed throughout my life.
DHK

 

posted February 17, 2002 12:14 PM
---------------------------------------------

Like Lorelei has been saying along: When there is no evidence, there is no evidence. If there was I think we would have seen some by now.

---------------------------------------------

How much more *evidence* do you want? It says it all in Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to *SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES,* as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:16) But *THIS* is *THAT* which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (outpouring of the Spirit or the birth of the NT Church)

Acts 2:38 ....and ye shall receive the *GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.* (not the gift of tongues)You all seem to get the receiving of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, mixed up with the gift of tongues, which is not required!

The Spirit of God will not enter where there is *UNBELIEF.*

Yes, I'm saying what you think I'm saying.

MEE

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
But if you understand that there is a diffrence b/t the gift and the evidence.

But if you would do me a favor. Some one asked me a couple of weeks or days ago to read Corinthians as if Paul is condemning the use of tongues and that is it just used for the edification of the church and not ones self. If you could just read it as if you understand that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Ghost and how praying in tongues edifies your spirit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the problem! You first admit that 1 Corinthians is speaking of the "gift" which is different then the "evidence" yet you want me to read it is if it is talking about the "evidence". If it is talking about the "gift" (Which you admit it is since it says that all will not have it) then you can't use these verses to explain it as the "evidence". It is clearly talking about the gifts of the Spirit here. So, where does one find out about the "evidence"???


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
I don’t have a corner on all of this, and I don’t claim to. I just know that what takes place is real. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is a real experience, but is a Biblical one?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
Does the devil come along and try to whisper to me that it is just myself and that it has nothing to do with god? All the time. But the devil is a liar and the father of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the first thing the Devil will say? "Don't knock it until you try it" He said that to Eve about the fruit, he says that to the teenager who hasn't tried drugs yet, he says it to the outcast who is thinking of getting into the occult. "Don't knock it until you try it". "If it feels good how can it be bad?" He says that to the unmarried person who is having sex out of wedlock. Think about how the Devil deceives. It doesn't matter how "real" it is or how "good" it feels, it matters whether or not it lines up with God's Word.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
Well I got to get to prayer. And I think I am going to try to go on a spiritual diet tomorrow if you want to join me Lorelie. (Fast). Just for anyone else who is reading this I am not saying this to brag just asking if anyone wants to reach out and come together and agreement on what we are praying for. God Bless<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I admire you diligently seeking an answer. I will not join you in fasting at this time, but I will join you in prayerfully seeking out the Truth. Just please remember that the Truth you find in prayer will be supported by the Word of God, not contradict it.

Keep studying, as will I!

~Lorelei

 

MEE,

It says that some people spoke in tongues, but never that everyone will. It does say that not everyone will have the gift of tongues. You can't and haven't shown me where the Bible talks about tongues as anything other than a gift.


You quoted Acts 2:38. Please show me where those who responded to Peter's message there spoke in tongues. They didn't. They did many things, speaking in tongues was never mentioned.

Of course I have said all of this many times, you just refuse to see read it in context.

~Lorelei

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
The Spirit of God will not enter where there is *UNBELIEF.*
Yes, I'm saying what you think I'm saying.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Acts 10:43 “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

Faith in Christ = Salvation.

Faith in Christ + Baptism = nothing

Faith in Christ + Speaking in tongues = nothing

Faith in Christ + Good Works = nothing

Faith in Christ + Second Blessing = nothing


FAITH IN CHRIST = SALVATION

Faith in Christ + nothing = salvation

Have you done your arithmetic lately?
DHK

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Acts 10:43 “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

Faith in Christ = Salvation.

Faith in Christ + Baptism = nothing

Faith in Christ + Speaking in tongues = nothing

Faith in Christ + Good Works = nothing

Faith in Christ + Second Blessing = nothing


FAITH IN CHRIST = SALVATION

Faith in Christ + nothing = salvation

Have you done your arithmetic lately?
DHK
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you say that then you have to say

Faith + Repenting = Nothing

But what I would say to that is the same thing James would have said

Faith + Nothing = Nothing.

DHK you have yet to see the blessing in being obedient to Scripture. What you call works We call obeideince.

But when you see something in the Bible that tells us to do it and we dont. That is called sin.

James says
4:17. Therefore to him that knoweth * to do * good, and doeth * it not, to him it is * sin.

DHK, of course salvation comes by faith alone. What if we had no faith where would we be? It seems as if you think that one can just believe that Jesus is, and that is all there is too it. The bible tells us that the devils believe and tremble.

But I have said many times that your faith is going to motivate you to persue the calling of God to fullfill his will.

What good is your faith if your not going to use it? God gave you a talent, and if you dont make an increase with it he is going to take it from you and give it to someone else.

The truth is the Gospel. You better have faith to believe that. But once your faith takes you that far, You should have faith in the rest of the word of God as well. So as the scipture says "We are saved by fatih"

I kind of got off the subject a little bit there but oh well, its mainly us guys so I guess the floor is open for discussion.

This is not a trap question, just honestly asking. Is there any where in the bible where the gift of interpretatioin was used?

If you know of any where please let me know

GOd bless