1 Corinthians 12-14

Hi, Brian. Naomi covered it pretty well early in the thread.

"Now we know that love never fails. When we get to heaven, we will no longer be in need of spiritual gifts. The perfect will come. The gifts will no longer be needed, but love will be forever.
We prophesy in part, we know in part. We see through a glass dimly. Soon we will be face to face."

1Corinthians 13 is about love. God's infinite and perfect love: not revelation, not the Bible.

 

As I've posted elsewhere & it was not commented on that I remember-is "the perfect law of liberty" found in James 1:25(KJV), NOT talking about the Bible? [I had written those notes down a long time ago & need to correct it, if it's not]. If it IS talking about the "perfect" Bible, then wouldn't this be a scripture to identify [when that which is "perfect" is come]? I don't know how else to say what it is I'm asking.

Also, in 14:2, I see that as meaning if someone from a foreign country stood up in my little assembly(all English-speaking) & started speaking in his native tongue, no one would be able to understand him except God.

[ July 09, 2002, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: GrannyGumbo ]

 

I answered your question from Scripture. 1Cor.12:28 is the Scripture itself. "Diversities of tongues" means many kinds of languages. This is not a difficult concept. However, let's look at other Scripture:

Acts 2:
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
---They spoke with "other tongues" (different languages). In Jerusalem there devout men out of every nation. When these men heard the disciples speaking these many different languages they were amazed because each man heard them speak in his own "language."

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
---They questioned each other how they were able to hear their own mother tongue (language) wherein they were born. They knew that these disciples were Galileans.
Verses 9-11 list some 11 different languages or nations represented there.

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
--Again the fact is referred to that "we hear them speak in our tongues (our languages) the wonderful works of God.
Tongues and languages are used interchangeably throughout this chapter. There is no such thing as a "heavenly" language, except for that which Paul described in 2Cor.12, and was not allowed to utter, and that which we will actually speak when we do get to Heaven, which is unknown on earth. Speaking in tongues is speaking another language, unknown to the person speaking it, but known to someone else.
DHK

 

Naomi~"I'm sorry, but something doesn't seem right here; for one thing I do not understand anything you've "explained"...so I think I'll just sit this one out---for now.

[ July 09, 2002, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: GrannyGumbo ]

 

No man understood it because they were not using an interpreter for which they were rebuked.

 

With all due respect DHK, Can you offer a scriptural reference? Thanks.
Naomi</font>[/QUOTE]1Cor.13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

Where does it teach that speaking in tongues is for prayer purposes? It doesn't. Neither does it say that the Holy Spirit will give another person for interpretation. What it does say is that if you don't have an interpreter, then sit down, keep quiet, shut up, don't speak, don't even try to speak in tongues. Paul made it very clear.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

As for the women they were not permitted to speak in tongues at all.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
DHK

[ July 09, 2002, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Hi N, Thanks for the topic, it seems to be going well.

""1 Cointhians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.""

N, I think you are missing one crucial point here. This is written in the negative. It is a open rebuke of the practices of the church of Corinth. When Paul wrote the words above he was saying those were bad things. Self edification and blabbing "mysteries" are not good things. Paul mentions the good thing, "Love" amongst the bad. Jesus outlined prayer himself and never mentioned any private language, right? If you miss the fact that Paul is "spanking" the church at Corinth you will never understand what Paul is saying here.

John Mc., said in a book I read that the "God" in that verse in greek would be better interpreted "a god". If read like that it really brings to light what Paul was saying.

In Christ,
Brian

 

KJV - ""13:8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13:9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
13:10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
13:11: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
13:12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13:13: And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.""

DHK, On the "that which is perfect" issue, I just see the Kingdom age and the end of the "curse as the more complete explanation. We have a curious statement here that cannot be ignored. "But then face to face" When is the face to face? When that which is perfect comes. The kingdom age or the lifting of the curse time, however you want to say it takes this into account, The Bible theory does not. Overall as I read and re-read the passage I see where you are coming from but I am much more comfortable with my side of this one. Also, for you to be right then Knowledge and prophecy must be gone ( I know you believe that) but I don't so in that sense for me my theory is supported by the fact that I believe there are still gifts of proclaiming God's word and better understanding of God's word. (not in regards to revelation).

For those still deciding in their own minds just keep studying and praying about it. How I wish we were of one accord on this but some day we won't see through that glass, darkly, and will know him as he really is.

In Christian love,
Brian

 

13:12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I know, I know...what can I say, except it's hard to sit still "Brian, I always thought this meant that back then, they didn't have ALL of God's Word, like we do today...(glass darkly, know in part). Now we DO have His completed and perfect Word & ya know what? Everytime I open that blessed Old Book-- BAM! there I am...I see "myself" (face to face), I know what I must do to change, grow, learn, what I am, who I am, what I should be, could be, etc. because it's all in there(know as I am known). This is some more of that homegrown-cornpone, but that's how I understand it.

 

Granny, What you say is interesting and insightful but something is off about it. Face to face would be a strange way of saying that we are reflecting on ourself. Think about it, if you were writing about seeing someone for the first time you would say "i can't wait to see him face to face. I really think that Paul would have made the reflective thing clear had he meant that. It is a pretty big stretch coming to that conclusion based on the words we have to work with. Also, do you believe the gifts of prohecy and knowledge are gone? because if the Bible is, that which is perfect, then prophecy and knowledge (gifts that is) are gone as well, that is clear in the text. We all sometimes have a belief first and try to make verses say what we want, we all do that and anyone that says they never do is not honest. Well, that is it for now. Thanks again for your kindness and great attitude, even in the midst of something we do not agee on.

In Christ,
Brian