Salvation

It is not cool to get rebaptized several times to join a Church. At that point, you're just getting wet. We have "one faith, one Lord, one baptism".

When I was relaying a story about my former college roommate getting rebaptized this Spring to a friend of mine - Rob Corzine - who himself grew up in a hardcore Baptist family (only he and one other cousin have become Catholic, and he doesn't know of any ancestores that are Catholic; his aunts and uncles planted churches in Latin America), I said, "My former college roommate was just rebaptized about two months ago."

Rob replied, "No he wasn't."

I said, "Yes, Rob, he was."

Rob: "No, he wasn't."

Not quite getting it, I said, "No, Rob, he was rebaptized at Second Baptist in Houston, where Caedmon's Call plays - http://www.second.org - I'm not lying."

Rob: But he didn't get rebaptized. He just got wet.

***

There's also an error on Second Baptist's website:

If you visit http://www.second.org/imnew/beliefs.asp - you'll find the following statements:

"Listed below you will find a summary of the essential beliefs that all Christians share.."

"The Bible is inspired by God, and is the truth without any mixture of error. It is the sole authority for life"

Not all Christians hold to Sola Scriptura, and this includes millions and millions of non-Catholics (i.e., the Orthodox).

"Salvation is God’s free gift to us. We receive this gift through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ alone. ... Faith means trusting in Christ alone for the remission of our sins."

Not all Christians hold to Sola Fide - that only fiduciary faith is required for salvation.

If you have made a genuine commitment of faith in Jesus, you cannot lose your salvation."

Not all Christians believe in OSAS.

[ July 12, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

"The Bible is inspired by God, and is the truth without any mixture of error. It is the sole authority for life"

Not all Christians hold to Sola Scriptura, and this includes millions and millions of non-Catholics (i.e., the Orthodox).

Click to expand...

Please explain how "Sola Scriptura" and "sole authority" have the same meaning.

Yes, actually he was very wrong in what he said. I just don't think any of
you actually care to know why since your so busy bashing something you
refuse to know more about. (Adam)

I'd compare our need for knowledge of Catholicism in the same light as our
need to know and understand Islam......Zilch ! Salvation is available and
awarded on a Whosoever Believes basis....what more could
a person want?

While Mosiac law is fulfilled, we are still held to Moral law. Unless of
course murdering babies and worshipping Baal has become okay.(Adam)

But Adam.....obeying ALL Moral Laws that you want to pile on a person would
still not save them.

You'd probably be pretty angry with me. Yet that is what a great deal
of people here do to our Catholic friends. They have been patiently
trying to explain their beliefs to us, yet most people don't care to listen.
Instead they stick steadfast to their stereotypes and misrepresentations of
their faith. (Adam)

Again....what would we gain by understanding Catholicism or Islam or Hindu ?

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–
and shudder.

This should make all good Catholics fear and tremble then.

[/b]And this is just a start. Believing in Christ, having faith in our Lord, God,
means believing in all that he is and all that he said, not picking and choosing
the parts that we like (Adam).[/b]

Believing means different things to different folks. I should know...I was in the 2x2
Organization.

Yes, we still must follow the moral code. Matthew 19, the young man asks
what he can do to enter heaven and Jesus says keep the commandments
and then lists them and tells him now to sell everything and follow him.(J.S.)

Moral Code Saves....??? I don't THINK SO !!!

Maybe in the OT but not in this day and age.

No, I didn't say the moral law saved and no the moral law didn't save in the OT.

I said we must still follow the moral law. The man asked how can he go to heaven and Jesus himself said obey my commandments and he starts listing the 10 commandments and he concluded by saying now sell everything and follow me. That doesn't mean the moral law itself saves. However, contrary to what Luther said, we can't go to heaven if we steal, murder, rape, commit adultery etc. 1000 times over each day.

Singer --
Bob Ryan......I'm not saying all OT people were unsaved.
By what method was their salvation in your view?

Click to expand...

Pre-Cross "NO one comes to the Father but by Me".

One Gospel in all ages "By Grace Through Faith" Gal 1:6-9.

Their only sacrifice capable of forgiving sins - was the timeless - future blood of Christ shed for mankind.

They were born "depraved" then as we are today - and only the New Birth could "change that".

They needed as much of the grace of God then to be saved - as we do today.

One gospel in All ages - the Gospel of Grace.

God never gave His Law as a substitute for the Gospel or as "another Gospel" or as "another way to get saved" (same thing as another gospel).

Most Christians believe this - as I am sure that you do - the trick is to remember to keep it all together and consistent in all ages.

In Christ,

Bob

John's baptism was not a Christian baptism. Those who were baptized by John were required by Paul to be rebaptized.

Click to expand...

The disciples of Christ were only baptized by John and THEY were very confused about the mission and purpose of the Messiah (see Matt 16 where Peter is addressed as "satan") - but that did not mean that they were not "saved".

In Christ,

Bob

"I'd compare our need for knowledge of Catholicism in the same light as our
need to know and understand Islam......Zilch !"

Do I actually need to discuss the value of a good education?

"Salvation is available and
awarded on a Whosoever Believes basis....what more could
a person want?"

You are once again trying to simplify what is not that simple. That's why where discussing this in the first place.

"But Adam.....obeying ALL Moral Laws that you want to pile on a person would
still not save them."

I agree, faith in Jesus Christ is absolutely essential to salvation. That does not in any way excuse our obligation to follow moral law.

"Again....what would we gain by understanding Catholicism or Islam or Hindu ?"

Knowledge, understanding, and a greater ability to respect, love, and serve one and another.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" - Hosea 4:6

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" -Derek Bok, former president of Harvard

"The direction in which education starts a man will determine his future life" Plato

"A little learning is a dangerous thing" - Alexander Pope (my favorite)


"This should make all good Catholics fear and tremble then."

Are you calling Catholics demons?

"Believing means different things to different folks. I should know...I was in the 2x2
Organization."

What are you getting at?

Yes, we still must follow the moral code.
Moral Code Saves....??? I don't THINK SO !!!

Selective listening?

Yes, we still must follow the moral code.
Moral Code Saves....??? I don't THINK SO !!!

Click to expand...

Truth is, practicing the moral code does save, but not in an eternal manner because doing so is a practice of Works, and works cannot save.

However, One cannot practice the moral code without having faith in its author! Who lives a righteous life without believing there is a God? Who lives a righteous life without believing there is something to be gained in doing so? Only the believer in the author of the code. If you are a believer in the author of the code, then you are one who has faith, and it is faith that saves eternally.

All spiritual blessings are IN Christ. Eph. 1:3.
Salvation is IN Christ. II Tim. 2:10
Redemption of sins IN Christ. Col. 1:14, Eph.1:7.
According to the Bible, how does one get INTO Christ?

"What does it profit, my breathen, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?"

Originally posted by Brother Adam:
"What does it profit, my breathen, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?"

Click to expand...

Faith is all there is that can save man, but then it is not faith that saves but God saves those who have faith in Him. Without faith there is nothing by which man can be saved.

Bob Ryan,

I think you probably conur that the disciples in Acts 19:1-5 were far away enough from Jerusalem and Pentecost that the new message of believing in Jesus and baptism had not reached their lives, so, of course, they had not even heard that Christian believers become indwelled by the Spirit of God. But, they were willing to take their next step in their faith journey toward Heaven.

Bob,

Yes, I've heard it was the grace of God that also saved in the OT times.
We can't hardly say that it was faith in Jesus re: the verse "No one comes
unto the Father but by me"...................can we ?

Jesus wasn't on the scene yet.

Grace in all ages; but not Jesus in all ages.

God is the saviour but was not revealed as the saviour until NT.

Faith in all ages is more accurate.

God, in his grace, saves those who have faith in him, regardless of which form He presents himself.

God, in his grace, saves those who have faith in him, regardless of
which form He presents himself.

I don't think that could be better said...........thanks Ray..!!!

Does that mean that you agree with this: "Salvation is by faith alone"?

Let me expand on that. God, of course, is the one who saves. But man can influence his own salvation, but, by means of man's faith only, and not by any works or any other thing that man does!

That is, there is nothing man can do to influence God into saving him but by the man having faith in God. Therefore it is by faith alone that man is saved.

[ July 13, 2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]

Scripture seems to disagree with you:

"For it is not those who hear the law who are justified in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law" See Romans 1:13

"the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works." See Romans2:5-11

Also check out Ezekial 18:26-30 33:13-14

"if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:2-3

"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person...has any inheritance in the kingdom" See Ephesians 5:4-7

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law" Romans 3:28 (however it does not say faith alone, whereas James says we are not saved by faith alone).

See also 1 John 3:21-24, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 8:13, Phil. 2:12, 1 John 3:7, Acts 10:34-35, James 1:4, Matthew 19:16-21, Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 18:32-35, John 5:29, Matthew 6:1-4, Hebrews 10:26-29, 2 Peter 1:5-11, 1 Corinthians 4:4-5, 1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Corinthians 10:12, Galatians 5:6, James 1:22-25, James 2:14-26

That's just a start. Seriously. I looked at each of these verses, so it wasn't a quick copy and paste job. The theme of scripture seems to say that we are saved by "faith working through love". That our faith must be placed in Jesus Christ alone, our only mediator, and that faith must be a complete trust and following of the will of our God. Not our own will, but God's will.

A Christian is NOT called to "accept Christ as his Savior" and then continue life in their own will, but is called to trust in Christ as their Savior, have faith in all He said, and pick up their crosses and follow Him.

This is what the scriptures speak to. An increadible amount of emphesis is placed on our own actions- not that our actions can save us alone, or that works of Mosaic law can save us, but they are necessary in the Christians life, because through our actions we can show a rejection to what Christ calls us too, as Paul said, "whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall"

God Bless,
Bro. Adam

I should have been clearer- It's not Mosaic law that we must hold to, but we are obligated to follow moral law.

"For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love you have demonstrated for his name by having served and continuing to serve the holy ones. We earnestly desire each of you to demonstrate the same eagerness for the fulfillment of hope until the end, so that you may not become sluggish, but imitators of those who, through faith and patience, are inheriting the promises." Hebrews 6:10-12

not unjust so as to overlook your work He doesn't use the measuring stick of the LAW to judge us but rather the one of GRACE. So yes, God wants to see our works and he can accept them because he is looking through the lens of GRACE.

may not become sluggish, but imitators of those who, through faith and patience, are inheriting the promises
The ones who aren't SLUGGISH but are WORKING through faith and love will inherit eternal life.

If it is faith that saves, then it is a WORKING and LOVING faith. The truth is that there is such a faith that is DEAD, one that is void of works.

Originally posted by Justified Saint:


The ones who aren't SLUGGISH but are WORKING through faith and love
will inherit eternal life.
If it is faith that saves, then it is a WORKING and LOVING faith. The truth is
that there is such a faith that is DEAD, one that is void of works.

Click to expand...

Count me in on the works thing then....I've been working to warn my family of
the heresies of the RCC most of my life. I work to expose Catholicism's fallacies
in love for my fellow man. I dedicate prime time to this board to learn more of
the Vatican's misleadings so I can WORK and be a better and more informed
witness for the truth.

1 Timothy 2:4
" Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the
knowledge of the truth."