The Rapsure?

This is EXACTLY what happened in AD70 when the Lord returned. He came back to earth from the "temple made without hands" in Heaven (Heb 9 & 10) where He had offered YOM KIPPUR for the sins of the people of God. His return showed that the sacrifice had been accepted and that the payment for the sins of the people had been made.

Because the payment was made, Paradise, the area where the righteous dead resided in anticipation of glory, and Hades, the realm of the wicked dead, were both opened, the souls came forth, and the Day of Judgement began. Death (which is SEPARATION FROM GOD) no longer existed because the work of Christ, finished on the Cross and accepted in Heaven, had torn down that barrier which Adam's sin erected. The great gulf was crossed.

There is no more death now (separation from God). All who die now go immediately into the presence of Christ/God for Judgment (Rom 2: 5 - 10). The righteous no longer have to wait in a "holding room" called Paradise. They can be judged, rewarded, and stand before the Beatific Vision in joy. The wicked no longer are kept from the wrath of God in a holding room called Hades. They are judged and brought into the eternal fires of His wrath.

Yes, it is glorious!!

 

lol downsville, I have enjoyed reading your commentary, where are the rapturist rebuttals?

It's a shame in these end times craze what extremes some people will go to, some people need to realize the "Left Behind" books and others aren't the Word of God.

 

JT, as you well know, the Lord will seperate His Bride from the "so called" church world.

Let's say that the one morning you and other non-believers of the "rapture of the church" wake up and find millions missing?

Now keep in mind that there will be some folks left that were very dedicated to their "church" and they are still here...remember God knows the heart of man.

What would be your opinion as to what had happened to the missing people?

Just curious,
MEE

 

I don't know. What if I woke up and pigs were flying?

Another problem with the rapture, if you don't believe in it you aren't Christian. I guess the gates to heaven didn't start opening till the 1800s.

 

Reducing your statements
down by removing the absurb, we end up with:
"I don't know".

We tend to agree with your statement

Pigs do not Fly.
You do NOT have to believe in "the rapture"
to be a Christian. Jesus Saves, not
the Rapture Saves. The doctrine of the
Rapture existed the first 1800 years
of the Christian era. The very name of
the event comes from the Latin, in
English it is "caught up" (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

 

Catholic Convert "This is EXACTLY what happened in AD70
when the Lord returned."

[scarasm]Yes, i see it in the face of the lamb
lying with the lion. Yes, i see it in the whole
world going up to Mount Zion (in Jerusalem)
to worship. Yes, i see it in the when i let
my toddler grandchild play on the asp hole.
Yes, Praise Jesus that none of us ever
have troubles as Jesus said in John 16:33b
(KJV1769): " ... In the world ye shall have
tribualtion, but be of good cheer, I
have overcome the world.[/scarasm]

 

The problem is that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 has nothing to do with the doctrine of the secret rapture that snatches believers away from tribulation. Don't kid yourself though, with some evidence of its concept in the 1700s, the secret rapture doctrine was singly-handedly invented in the 1800s as it is taught today. I thought revelation ended with the apostles, guess not.

 

I can prove from the Holy Bible (last part written
in 90AD) the pretribulation rapture. Takes
no "revelation" (but does take the book of
Revelation).

 

JS, if you don't know or at least have an opinon, all I can say is at least you are honest about it.

I don't recall saying that anyone had to believe in the rapture of the church to go to heaven...but it sure gives one something to look forward to when He returns.

MEE

 

Since it's not a salvation issue, it don't pay to get all worked up about it. That's why I don't debate it.I'm a pre-tribber, some ain't.

Now how about some works-based salvationists answer my thread HERE

 

Strangely, most non-pre-tribbers
that i have known are works-based salvationists.

 

Justified Saint,

You said, 'It's a shame in these end times craze what extremes some people will go to, some people need to realize the "Left Behind" books and others aren't the Word of God.'

Ray is saying, From your perspective and church tradition the concept of Christ taking His people into Heaven seems foreign to you. I have never read the "Left Behind" series of books, because they are not theological books; I think they are more along the lines of the way it might be when the rapture takes place.

You are correct that these series of books are not the Word of God.

The taking of the church to Heaven [I Thess. 4:17] was believed by Christians during the apostolic times and for a few hundred years afterward, until Augustine came up with his theory of the Kingdom of God now taking place on the earth right now and even up into this 21st. century. This twisted view of theology has Catholicism by the throat as well as some Protestant church, like the Reformed Baptists. The concept of the church being taken to Heaven before the Great Tribulation and before the Second Coming of Christ after said Tribulation period of time, was lost or buried because of Roman Catholic teaching and tradition since the time of St. Augustine. Thank the Lord it has re-surfaced during our times and is taught in major Bible Colleges and renowned seminaries throughout our nation and world.

There will be no secret rapture because when He comes it will be with the shout of the Lord, plus the voice of the archangel and his trumpet blast. I hope you are ready to meet Him in the air. [I Thessalonians 4:17]

 

In the back of my Bible I found this. Maybe it will shed some understanding about the Books of I & II Thessalonians.

First Thessalonians . . . I will jot down the parts about eschatology. 'Many Thessalonians were disconsolate over departed love ones 4:13-17 . . . . and to assure them of their deliverance from the coming judgment of the Day of the Lord {5:1-5}; to exhort them to watchfulness (5:6-11) and orderly conduct in the assembly and in daily life [5:12-23].

Second Thessalonians . . . 'Some held that the tribulations and persecutions they were enduring were the tribulations of the Day of the Lord and consequently that they had either missed the translation {now Ray's words-Christ coming for His church/the rapture} or Paul had been wrong in his teaching (I Thess. 4:13-5:10). Paul writes the Second Epistle to commend them for their spiritual growth (1:3,4), to comfort them in their persecutions (1:5-10); to correct their misinformation and misapprehension concerning the Day of the Lord. (2:1-12); and to correct disorderliness in the church. (3:6-15).

AUTHOR . . . From the similarity of the conditions reflected by the two epistles, it is concluded that Paul wrote the second letter shortly after the first, probably within a few months. It was written from Corinth in A.D. 51.

Explanation by J. Dwight Pentecost, Th.D.

 

Ray, along with the rapture, sola scriptura, sola fide, osas, altar calls, prayers that save you, symoblic prescence of Christ in communion, symbolic baptism etc., all these teachings were burned very early on by the Catholic Church so that they could make up their own doctrines, for whatever reason.

 

Just because they burned many of those faithful saints that taught those truths - does not mean they "burned" the teachings themselves.

The RCC has been very slow to learn that lesson. As Dr Carroll points out - they would have burned Dr. Billy Graham at the stake, but we observe "the gospel would have continued anyway".

Praise God!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob, you have really got to get off the Dr. Carroll kick? You haven't even once quoted him in forever, and you simple insert your own assertions as if that's exactly what he said, and then pretend that it's the Church's stance.

I can't trust you at all when you do things like this. If you have a case, make it, don't misquote over and over again.