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Tradition

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003.

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  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    The short answer.

    Either the Church does or does not have authority.

    We know from historical documentation that the Bible comes to us through the Church. It was the Church in Council that recognized which writings were or were not inspired and thus included in the Bible.

    If you reject the authority of the Church, in honesty, you must reject the Bible. In which case, I guess that the best you could do is gather up as many ancient writings as you can find and then decide for yourself what is/is not inspired. Good luck.

    Or you can accept that the Church has authority and that the Church excercised that authority in recognizing Scripture. In keeping with that authority, the Church has the authority, granted by Jesus to teach.
     
    #41 trying2understand, Feb 13, 2003
  2. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Thessalonian, I cannot throw away Peter or Paul's writings, they are preserved.
     
    #42 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    How do I correctly interpret, "for all have sinned" ?
     
    #43 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Thessalonian, to clarify, Paul was a sinner, yes. So was Moses, David, Solomon, etc. But their writings are inspired of God. That is the difference, the fundamental issue. I believe inspiration stopped, when John wrote "AMEN" at the end of Revelation. You believe inspiration continues, but only thru the RCC.

    A preacher, sins. He cannot help it. But if he preaches from God's word, he need not worry.
     
    #44 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  5. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Curtis, before you start posting more examples, how about discussing the ones you have already given?

    I will ask yet again, albeit in different words. Hopefully you won't continue to ignore the question. And please remember that you started this thread and I am using an example from your very first post.

    Please explain how you interpret this verse to mean "all" (literally every single one without exception) and at the same time exclude Jesus while the author makes no such exclusion.
     
    #45 trying2understand, Feb 13, 2003
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Jesus did it for me. Jesus, being God, deserves the glory. That is the disclaimer, for want of a better term, that excludes Jesus from the "all" word.
     
    #46 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  7. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Can't help seeing the contradiction here, Curtis.
     
    #47 trying2understand, Feb 13, 2003
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I don't see one.
     
    #48 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    BTW, I assume that dei verbum translates to God's word, correct ?
     
    #49 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  10. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Why do you think that the author of Romans didn't include your disclaimer in verse 10 when he was saying, "...there is none righteous, no, not one".

    Don't you think that your disclaimer is important enough for him to include it?
     
    #50 trying2understand, Feb 13, 2003
  11. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Are you saying Jesus wasn't righteous ?
     
    #51 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  12. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


    You have to read the whole passage. I'm not saying you didn't, but it seems like we are stalling on a non-issue, when talking aboiut tradition.
     
    #52 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  13. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    No, I am asking you for a clarification of your position which you took in the very opening psot to this thread which you started.

    Please reconcile the "none is righteous" with the righteousness of Jesus.

    How about a direct answer for a change of pace?
     
    #53 trying2understand, Feb 13, 2003
  14. show me

    show me New Member

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    '23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"


    The Bible also says that "it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement." How about Enoch? How about Elijah?
     
    #54 show me, Feb 13, 2003
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Ron, I answered it. Christ is righteous. He can "say for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", because he IS God.

    These attempts at trying to trip me up is your legacy here. And you wonder why we get so frustrated. I can't think of the last question I gat a straight answer to, except Brother Ed's. He always answers, and never hears a cross word from me.
     
    #55 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  16. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I'm sorry, I also meant to include Carson, who answered my question, and didn't get credit. Sorry, brother carson.
     
    #56 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  17. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Show me, are you saying I can't trust my Bible, even when I don't understand ?

    Psalms 145:15 The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season.
     
    #57 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  18. rufus

    rufus New Member

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    The cultural context is important here. The Jewish Rabbis thought of "father" as "giver of life."

    Jesus was cautioning them about that, for only God is the giver of life (physical) and of LIFE (spiritual).

    rufus [​IMG]
     
    #58 rufus, Feb 13, 2003
  19. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Now THAT's a great response. Thanx, Rufus.
     
    #59 Bro. Curtis, Feb 13, 2003
  20. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Curtis,

    In light of Rufus' explanation, which you appear to agree with, what contradiction then do Catholics pose? I certainly do not see my parish priest as a giver of life.

    Also, I'm still waiting for "dad" and "father" difference. You don't need a Bible or a Catechism or NewAdvent.com to explain your reasoning. And you've had all day, and you've been posting all day. What is YOUR reasoning that "dad" is okay but "father" is not?

    God bless,

    Grant
     
    #60 GraceSaves, Feb 13, 2003
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