The LORD vs the Lord

Neither of you addressed the obvious in John 14. Jesus repeats the usage of the word "I" in verse 18 not he or someone else. How did the Spirit of truth dwell WITH them when this was before the Day of Pentecost? You say Jesus asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit. Reconcile that with John 16:7 "..the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, "I" will send him unto you." and John 20:22 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"[/B[

That is because Jesus is God and God is Jesus and they are both the Holy Ghost; there are three of them and yet they sre one, just like I said before!!!

Tam

 

Yes, it's "I will send. It's not "I will return with a different name". He did say that He would be 'present' with them, but it was clearly in a different member of the divine nature, while Jesus remained at the right hand of the Father. So there we see three distinct members of one divine essence at the same time.

And there must be this distiction, else, when Jesus died, there was no God for those three days. God cannot die, but when He took on a human nature, that could die.
Father, Son and Spirit share God is one divine essence, and three, for lack of better word, "persons". However, three "beings" is going way too far. God is one being (essence), if there is only one God in any sense.

http://members.aol.com/etb700/triune.html

 

EricB and Tam
Couldn't say it better.

 

Eric B, you said:

And there must be this distiction, else, when Jesus died, there was no God for those three days. God cannot die, but when He took on a human nature, that could die.

Thank you, I wish I had thought of that.

Tam,

 

**question and answer quote taken from Dr. J. Rodman Williams at 700 Club website**
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Question:
You stated that you believe that Jesus is God and shares the Godhead with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. Then how can you say this is monotheistic?

Answer from Dr. J. Rodman Williams:
This is a monotheistic statement because there is only one God. In the one God there is a trinity of persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who exist in a mutual relationship of love. Whereas there is a distinction of persons, there is no division so that all three are fully the one God. There is mystery here, but Christian faith gladly proclaims in the words of a familiar hymn, "God in three persons, blessed Trinity."
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Interesting at the least, Dr. J. Rodman Williams answers question for the Pentecostal people. Here is a link for more on trinity A/Q from Dr. J. Rodman Williams.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/drwilliams/QA03_God.asp#monotheistic


Music4Him

 

quote by HisMercy
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Did the apostles baptize anyone using the words "in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost"? Let what is written in the Word answer that question.
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First off....What is the difference between Matthew 28:19-baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and Acts 8:16-baptizing only in the name of the Lord Jesus?


Either form of baptism-"In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or "only in the name of the Lord Jesus"-is valid. The longer form expresses that to be a Christian is to enter into a new life in which all three persons of the Godhead are actively involved. The shorter form focuses on Jesus in whom all "the fullness" (Col. 1:19) of the Triune God dwells, so that baptism in Jesus' name is also a complete and valid baptism. Christ is the vital center of all baptisms! (See also Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12

But to answer your question...Jesus told them to in Matt.28:16-20.

Music4Him

 

I can never understand how they focus so nuch on Acts, and act as if Matt.28 is not there.

The Spirit was IN Him as well, of course. And this proves distinction. You had the human Jesus with them, then after He left, The Spirit would be with them, but not Jesus in the Flesh. So the Father is God in His "the Heavens cannot contain Him" glory, the Word/Son is God working physically in the world (Creation, Dying on the Cross for sins, etc) and the Spirit is God working invisibly in people's hearts. One essence or being, yet the three forms exist simultaneously.

Since they share one nature, they can be pictured singularly.

 

Eric said:
I can never understand how they focus so nuch on Acts, and act as if Matt.28 is not there.

Amazing ain't it? But even so there is so many hints through out the OT and NT of a triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Jesus said it in Matthew 28:19, He told the disciples about the trinity through telling them how to baptize people, but yet it still goes over heads?

Music4Him

 

Music4Him said:

Answer from Dr. J. Rodman Williams:
This is a monotheistic statement because there is only one God. In the one God there is a trinity of persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who exist in a mutual relationship of love. Whereas there is a distinction of persons, there is no division so that all three are fully the one God. There is mystery here, but Christian faith gladly proclaims in the words of a familiar hymn, "God in three persons, blessed Trinity."
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Hismercy, that sums it up, just as all the other answers have.

But there is no point in belaboring the matter, because you will never get what is being said.

So beleive what you want, God Bless, good luck, etc.

Tam,

 

MEE, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you about the name of Jesus being the "name" of the collective Godhead.

In the circle of churches I have attended, almost ALL ministers baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: in the name of Jesus.

They say all the words every time there is a baptism.

The reason being, that some people believe one way, some another, and they don't want to offend anyone!!

Also, they want to cover all the bases, just in case they don't understand it right.

I think all of us are really closer to agreeing than some might think.

It may just be in the way we express it.

(I only use being in my formula for lack of a better word)

Within the nature of the one God there are three eternal beings, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

I don't know how many we will see for sure when we get to heaven. I don't think we will see the Holy Spirit, because you can't see spirits. God the Father is a spirit, so we may not see Him!!

That would leave only Jesus for us to see.

However it is, I will be thrilled beyond thought to see who and what is in heaven!!

Praise His Holy name!!

Tam,

 

Those are not titles, but the names of 3 distinct, co-equal, eternal Beings in the one Godhead. This is the Trinity, a doctrine taught in the bible and held by the early church though it was not forumlated until later when modalism was refuted. Modalism -- one God manifesting in 3 persons that are all the same being -- went under the name of Sabellianism, and was denounced as a heresy. The God and Jesus of modalism are not the God and Jesus of the Bible and the Oneness doctrine is heretical. Sorry to be blunt, but we have to divide on doctrine when it comes to the nature of God.

God the Father is not Jesus; Jesus is not the HS; the HS is not God the Father, but they all share the same divine essense in one Godhead. As many verses posted here have shown, these are 3 distinct Beings (called Persons for convenience but are not persons like human persons).

These links might be helpful (not long articles) in explaining the Trinity and Biblical basis for it:

What is the Trinity?

Trinity

Early Trinitarian Quotes

 

Marcia,

What you posted has already been said by Music, Tam(myself), and others.

To say it over again is redundant. But thanks so much for agreeing with us!!!

Tam,

 

Yeah, you're right, Tambourine Lady, it was redundant. Just can't keep silent sometimes!!
<We need a graemlin that slaps itself in the face>

 

ROFLOL, that was a bit of comic relief!

Of all the answers I could have thought you would come back with, I never thought of that response!!

So good to see that some people have a sense of humor!!



God Bless,

Tam

 

Well, if you acknowledge Christ used all three names in Matthew, then why do oneness people make such an issue of it and say you MUST only use Jesus, as if the Father and Holy Spirit were false gods? How did the RCC change it, if it was used by Christ in Matthew? Yes, Father Son and Holy Spirit are the name of the one God, but the fact that you have these three names in one shows that they must be something more than just "roles" of one person. One being, yes, but "person" and "being" in this case are not synonymous.

 

Actually, I've read that in the original Hebrew, Is.9:6 really reads is "Wonderful in Counsel IS the Mighty God, Everlasting Father..." (after all, it is one name, not several, as the common translations make it appear). So the "name" therefore is pointing to God Father, not saying that He IS the Father. (And didn't you just say that "Father" was not a name" anyway?)
To say that the Father, Son and Spirit are just titles of one person (with one name), still makes those "titles" lose their meaning. The Father is Father to the Son, and the Son is Son of the Father. This cannot be one person. Even the commonly cited "a single person is father to one person, Son to another and cousin to another" still, he is those things to three totally different people, not to/within himself.
Jesus represented all of the fullness of the Godhead on earth, so in that sense is "Jesus" the "one name" for the Godhead. But there is still a Father He prayed to and sat at the right hand of in Heaven, while the Spirit came and dweeled in both Him, and now us while on earth.