Worship=Singing=Worship?

Sola is not a protestant. So, to link him with the protestant movement and its' errors is simply a straw man argument.

This argument about Catholic atrocities and them being somehow overlooked because Luther, Calvin endorsed or did thesame thing is unsound. Both are bad behaviors. You cannot dismiss one because of the other.

Again, one who is not a protestant does not base his theology on Calvin, Luther, or the Catholic church. Therefore, to use these men and the Catholic church as a litmus for truth is futile.

 

The doctrine of “Manifest Destiny” was justification by our Christian forefathers for eliminating the American Indian and transferring the land to the white man. This was our Christian forefather’s erroneous belief that God pre-ordained the land to God’s blessed and chosen white man. Many believed these people not to have souls. "The only good indian is a dead indian." was a common sentiment even among "good" Christians and pastors in many churches as people pressed west. When Indians died from white man's disease it "proved" that God was on the Christians side and justified going forward and finishing them off.

Our Christian forefathers religious beliefs later could be used to justify slavery of the negro because these people too had no soul.

Non-Catholics can change their church when their Pastor or leaders sin, split off into new denominations, or hide from their history and say well it wasn't me, I wasn't there.
As an American it is intellectually and morally dishonest to know the facts and not acknowledge our not so pretty at all times, American heritage. This includes our religious roots and beliefs and how they could have been so wrong.

God Bless

 

Who says I dissmissed anything Frank? Sola is a Protestant and so are you. Protestantism is based on Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura. You can't run from these distortions of truth no matter what label you want to put on yourself or as the non-denoms do, no label at all that is a label. By the way Protestant means to protest, i.e. the Catholic Church so by the real definition he definitely fits and so do you.
Blessings to you

 

Thessalonian:
You are a Catholic. You are addressed as such because that is what you claim to be based on your theology. I am a Christian because that is what the inspired word of God calls his children. Isaiah 56:5; 62:2; 43:7; Acts 11:26; 26:28, I Pet. 4:16.
Now, if you do not like being called Catholic, I personally will not refer to you as such. I would not want to offend you by calling you an undesireable name.
So, is it appropriate to call you Catholic, or do you prefer another name?

 

Thessalonian:
No one is running from the truth. In fact, I provided the evidence that PROVES my name. I Thes. 5:21. Moreover, It is found by inspiration only in the New Testament of Christ. Just setting the record straight.
The New Testament produces Christians. Luke 8:11-15,I Peter 1:23;4:16. It is as simple as the law of sowing and reaping. Gal. 6:7,8. And, every seed produces after its' kind. Gen. 1:11.

 

Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, but you claim to be a Christian, and that all who believe in Jesus Christ are all "Christians," part of one body, despite denomination?

If that is the case, you ARE of the heritage of people that committed these attrocities. "Protestant" by name or not, they are your forefathers in the faith. So what does that prove?

That Christians are sinners in need of a savior, and that Savior is Jesus Christ, the Lord.

Any other spin you want to put on that is just that: a spin.

God bless,

Grant

 

Grant:
You have assumed to much in this question.
Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, but you claim to be a Christian, and that all who believe in Jesus Christ are all "Christians," part of one body, despite denomination?
The Bible condemns division. I Cor. 1:10-13, Titus 3:10-12, Romans 16:17, II John 8-11; III John.
Therefore, I do not and have not claimed all denominations are a part of the body of Christ.
Again, I am not a protestant, catholic or jew. Therefore, I do not subscribe to universal pluralism, calvinism, or any other ist or ism.
My standard is the new testament of Jesus Christ.

 

DHK, to put Grants thoughts into words that you should understand, "Speak the truth in love."

Grant was rightly pointing out that there is no love in desecrating a host.

Ron

 

For the record, both Sola and Frank belong to the Churhc of Christ. Frank once posted his or "their" creed on one of these threads which can now be found in the free for all archives. It had 33 points to it.
The 32 point states:

32 These rules shall be observed without variation of any kind. Anyone who fails to know and follow these rules perfectly is deemed to be lost eternally unless he/she repents

Although claiming to believe in sola scriptura, this cult, rightfully called Cambellism, believes in baptismal regeneration, and that works is what saves a person.
That is a far cry from the teaching of Eph.2:8,9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

They can rightfully say they are not Protestants, as Cambellism started far after the Protestant reformation.
DHK

 

"But whatever it takes"

This is where you stray off the path, DHK.

Often "whatever it takes" falls outside the realm of love.

Scripture says something about people who do not have love.

Ron

 

Dhk:
It is a misrepresentation of truth to say I posted 33 points to any creed. I have no man made creed. This is pure fabrication. My standard is the new testament of Jesus Christ. For you to say otherwise, is simply a falsehood.
I have responded to individuals about teachings in the Bible, but have never posted a creed of personal belief outside the Bible. Again, I have never posted any creed consisting of any points.

Secondly, it is a misrepresentastion to accuse me being any ist,ism or ite. You simply cannot prove it. And, the Bible says to prove all things. I Thes. 5:21.
For the record, and for those interested in restoration history, The Lord's church was in America several years before the Campbells, Stone or any other gospel preacher from abroad. The congregations of Northport Al. and Sweet Water Tn. were meeeting as the church at least 5 years before any of the previously named individuals arrived in America. So, it is rather difficult to establish that which is already founded.

Furthermore, The church Jesus established came on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem in the days of the Roman kings by the power of the Holy Spirit in A.D. 30. SEE Is. 4:1-4, Micah 4:2, Joel 2:28, Luke 24:44-51, John 14:26; 15:25; 16:13, Acts 2;1-4,17, 38-47, Mark 9:1, Mat. 3:1,2, Luke 2:1-3, Mat. 16:18, Daniel 2:44-47. This church may be found anywhere individuals faithfully observe the new testament of Jesus Christ.

As I stated previously, the inspired volume authorizes the name Christian. It is the name the mouth of the Lord named. It is the new name.Is. 62:2; 56:5, Acts 11:26. It is the name that glorifies Christ, not men. God does not share his glory with others. See Is. 42:8.

In the future, it would be advisable for you to allow me to represent myself as to what I believe, and the name I proclaim. This ensures honest and truthful representation of my personal beliefs. Moreover, it will keep you from embarrassing yourself by making false, and untrue statements.

I am under the authority of Christ. Mat. 28:18-20. I am duty bound to do all he has commanded taught as found in his last will and testament. Hebrews 9:15-17. I have the divine obligation to be called a Christian and no other name. As a matter of faith, I am a Christian, and a Christian only, no more no less.

I do not subscribe to the doctrines and traditons of uninspired men, neither do I wear names that glorify anyone other than Christ. For me, the Bible, and the name of Christ are sufficient.

 

There are 2 types of worship-

1)Romans 12:1-2...personal act of worship,laying down ones life for service to God...this is worship defined

2)Corporate worship...preaching,praying,offerings,praising God through singing,etc....

So,no singing is not worship to me,it is one way to worship,but true worship is a heart issue. Giving oneself to the Lord and being dazzled by His character and who He is would describe worship to me. Then,what we do in response to this woulkd also be worship.

Some act like it is all about music and singing...those kinds of churches strike a shallow chord with me.

Molly

Good question!

 

DHK, you are not Jesus.

Further, you seem to be picking and choosing your verses.

Have you reread what Scripture says about one who has not love?

Hint... Clannnnngggggg!!!

 

By inference then you put yourself outside the category of "Christian" meaning "follower of Christ."

Paul said, "Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ." Paul identified himself as a follower of Christ; so do I.
I realize that Catholics are followers of the Pope. That is what makes your religion distinct from Biblical Christianity. Again, the truth hurts.
DHK