Speaking in tongues

ONENESS, aren't you glad you saw that light? Don't you wish everyone would? The Apostle Paul saw it...and it sure turned him around.

MEE

 

Oneness,
Quote:
"IT CEASED WITH THE COMPLETION OF THE N.T.?
First of all if you are going to say that tounges ceased than you have got to say that knowledge has vanished away. Go ahead and state the rest of the verse if you are going to use it. Sure just a portion of scripture looks good stuck out on a bill board on a highway all by itself. But if you are going to use the verse, please quote the whole verse."

1 Cor. 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Notice that the greatest gift is charity (love). Let's try and understand why. There are three groups of gifts: 1) temporary sign gifts (tongues, prophecies, and revelatory knowledge),
2) semi-permanent gifts (faith and hope), and
3) permanent gift (love).
The greatest of all of these is love because it will endure forever through all eternity. It will never end.
What about faith. (2 Cor 5:7 KJV) " (For we walk by faith, not by sight)" That is, when we see Jesus, we will no longer have need of faith.
Heb.11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Likewise hope:
Rom.8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
--Hope that is seen is not hope. Thus when we see Jesus our hope will end. He is our hope. We will no longer have to hope for him to come. Thus at His Coming, faith and hope will end. Only love will continue. That is why love is the greatest. It only is permanent. Faith and hope are semi-permanent gifts ceasing at the second coming.

Verse 8 of 1Cor.13, says that prophecies shall fail, tongues shall cease, and knowledge shall vanish away. The question is "when?" Verse 9 says we know in part and we prophesy in part. The New Testament believers did not have all of the Word of God. They had the Old Testament, and maybe one or two of the New Testament books, like Matthew or James which were written earlier than the others. Therefore they knew in part. They only had "part" of the Word of God. Thus, they had the gift of prophesy (as well as tongues and revelatory knowledge) to give them further revelation of the Word of God. The word "knowledge" here does not refer to all common knowledge. It refers to that special revealed knowledge that was given as a sign gift, at that time, imparted to some in the early churches, so that they would have God's truth, as the New Testament had not yet been completed.
They knew in part and they prophesied in part.
Now verse 10 says, "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." The pronoun "that," in the Greek is in the neuter gender, not in the masculine. It therefore cannot refer to Jesus Christ, otherwise the Holy Spirit would have used a masculine pronoun to refer to Him. The word ‘that,' ("that which is perfect"), refers to the Word of God. The old English Word "perfect" means "complete." When the Word of God is completed then that which is in part (the temporary sign gifts of tongues, prophesying, and revelatory knowledge), shall be done away.
When that which is perfect (complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
The Word of God was completed about 95-98 a.d. when John finished the Book of Revelation. All the sign gifts ceased by the end of the first century. They were not needed any more. The only revelation that we need now is contained within the pages of the Bible. And the Lord gives a stern warning about adding to that (Rev. 22:18,19).
DHK

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

The word ‘that,' ("that which is perfect"), refers to the Word of God. The old English Word "perfect" means "complete." When the Word of God is completed then that which is in part (the temporary sign gifts of tongues, prophesying, and revelatory knowledge), shall be done away.
When that which is perfect (complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who says, "that which is perfect" refers to the Word of God? It means the completion of the Gentile dispensation! When the rapture of the church takes place, then the nine gifts AND the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, will cease. Not until then!

If the nine gifts were for the early church, then they are still for the church today, as well as the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

I say this with a

God bless you all,

MEE

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
Who says, "that which is perfect" refers to the Word of God? It means the completion of the Gentile dispensation! When the rapture of the church takes place, then the nine gifts AND the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, will cease. Not until then!
If the nine gifts were for the early church, then they are still for the church today, as well as the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Who says?" Well, let's take a look at what someone else says. I have here a quote from our own Dr. Bob Griffin:

Quote:
Love the CLARITY of the orginal while the English translations (take your pick) leave much to be desired.

"When that which is perfect is come" - the word "that" is a neuter demonstrative pronoun. It can ONLY refer to some noun (not given for us) that is likewise neuter.

So while we cannot say with definity what "that" IS, we can definitely rule out what "that" IS NOT.

So the partial and special revelations of God will stop when "that" THING (neuter) is come:

Can't be . . .
Jesus = masculine noun in Greek
Christ = masculine noun in Greek
Second Coming = feminine noun in Greek
Church = feminine noun in Greek
End of the Age = masculine noun in Greek

Hmmm. So what word IS "neuter" and refers to the revealed message of God?

BIBLE! = neuter noun in Greek (Biblion)

Again, can't say for sure, as there are hundreds of OTHER neuter nouns. But boy howdy, this one fits the bill.

Tongues, prophesies, revelations of God will cease when "that thing" (THE BIBLE) is come!

 

Oneness, you are in error. Please look closely at your statement: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>No one understood what they were saying in Acts 10. The only thing the Jews knew that the Holy Ghost had fallen b/c they heard the gentiles speaking in tongues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And yet, in v. 46 of chapter 10: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

How can it be that they knew the Gentiles were magnifying God if they didn't understand what they were saying?

Your second error is in stating that chapter 19 doesn't include interpreters, and then coming to the conclusion that because it doesn't say it, there were none there. Why is this an error? Because Paul later says, in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28, "..and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church." Why would Paul allow something but later "command" us to do as he says, not as he does?

You didn't answer my question: What language did you speak in? You should know; if you had an interpreter present--if you did speak in an unknown language in church, you had better have had an interpreter present--, he/she would know the language you spoke. I'll let you off the hook: I assume you didn't ask?

Or do you only speak in tongues by yourself?

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Don ]

 

MEE, I had that light switch on--BIG TIME. But I have never spoken in tongues.

I read the parables, and I have no problem allowing God to work through me to understand them.

I see something new in the Scriptures every time I read them; I know this is God working through me to increase my understanding of His word.

But I've never spoken in tongues. How do you feel about that?

 

DHK, it doesn't really matter what any Dr. of any denomination says. You are still trying to say that *tongues* have ceased. You are simply mistaken!

Acts 2:4)And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES, as the Spirit gave them utterance.(This WAS NOT the gift of tongues. They are different, but by the same Spirit.)

Peter said, Acts 2:38-39...."and ye shall receive tha gift of the Holy Ghost.

39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children an to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

When one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost, he/she will speak in tongues as the evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The promise still stands because HE has not returned. Right?

There is no use in carring this to extremes. You think you are right and I know I am. Not trying to be smart, just stating a fact. If I had never spoken in tongues I would at least look into it to make sure that I wasn't mistaken. Have you ever thought that you may be wrong?

There are millions that have the experience of speaking in tongues, as the Spirit of God gives the utterance. So please don't give me that stuff about it being another *spirit.*

Read Luke 11:11-13! After reading it remember, I sought the Holy Ghost and that is exactly what the Lord gave me. BTW, I spoke in tongues when I received it, just like they did on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:4.

How about let's end this discussion? I really don't like arguing over the Word and that is what is happening.

MEE

 

It is interesting that every time the subject of Speaking in tongues is posted there are always lots of response.

I have 2 questions:
1. Why such interest?
2. What is the "Greek word" for the word,
"Gibberish"? ( I sure do not see it in Strong's concordance.)

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: atestring ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
I really don't like arguing over the Word and that is what is happening.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interpretation--I don't want to accept what the Bible says on this subject.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Interpretation--I don't want to accept what the Bible says on this subject <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me about it, I refer you to the Trinity is Heresy thread.

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Godmetal ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
DHK, it doesn't really matter what any Dr. of any denomination says.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know if Bro. Griffin would take that as a compliment or an insult.
DHK

 

MEE, let's not end until you answer my question--but I'll allow you to do so through private message or e-mail.

----------

Atestring, that's an interesting question; so let's look at those words we're talking about:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (glossa - 1) the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech; 2) a tongue; 2a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations; in its use here, we can safely decree that definition 2 applies (see v.6)), as the Spirit gave them utterance

Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue (dialektos - 1) conversation, speech, discourse, language 2) the tongue or language peculiar to any people; in this case, definition 2 can safely be decreed as the proper definition due to the use of the word), wherein we were born?

1 Corinthians 14:2, 4, 5, 6, 9 - glossa.

1 Corinthians 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices (phone - 1) a sound, a tone; 1a) of inanimate things, as musical instruments; 2) a voice; 2a) of the sound of uttered words; 3) speech; 3a) of a language, tongue; based on the context, given by preceeding and following verses, we can safely assume definition #2a or 3a) in the world, and none of them is without signification.

v. 11 - voice (phone - see above).

v. 13, 14, 18, 19 - glossa.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (heteroglossos - one who speaks a foreign language) and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

v. 22, 23, 26, 27, 39 - glossa.

 

None of us can simply stop this discussion when our beliefs are challenged. We either have the obligation to defend and prove those beliefs, or we have the obligation to seriously look at and question those beliefs.

The ONLY result, either way, is our understanding--one way or the other--being increased.

When we leave, without seriously considering what the other is saying and either showing that person to be wrong or admitting that we were wrong, we do a disservice to God Himself.

I personally do not argue the subject of whether the gift of tongues has ceased or not; I only know that the majority of its use in our present day and age is incorrect.

 

bump

 

Is it too late for me to join in? Guess it doesn't matter since I am going to anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

Acts 2:4)And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES, as the Spirit gave them utterance.(This WAS NOT the gift of tongues. They are different, but by the same Spirit)

When one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost, he/she will speak in tongues as the evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The promise still stands because HE has not returned. Right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. Tongues is NOT the evidence of the Holy Spirit and no where does the Bible ever say that it is. You can't take what happened to a few believers and say that is the way it must be for everyone. Especially when you ignore other places in Acts where people received the Holy Ghost but it doesn't say that they spoke in tongues. At the END of Acts chapter 2 for instance.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As others have pointed out, those who spoke in tongues did so for a reason. Tongues was a sign and it was a specific language that others could understand.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

Have you ever thought that you may be wrong?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is why I read the Word of God and realized that I was indeed wrong and found out what the Truth really was.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

There are millions that have the experience of speaking in tongues, as the Spirit of God gives the utterance. So please don't give me that stuff about it being another *spirit.*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you beleive millions of people rather then the Bible?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Matthew 7:3 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

I spoke in tongues when I received it, just like they did on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:4.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the sound of a rushing mighty wind filled the entire house, a cloven tongue of fire rested upon your head and there were people from all nations around you that heard you speaking thier own language?

After all, if you spoke in tongues "like they did" then you would be speaking in a known language. For everyone knew what they were saying.

~Lorelei

[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]

 

u want testimony of charismatic turned baptist? u have one here

 

Still bumping. Waiting for Oneness and/or MEE to answer my question.

 

As I figured. Can't answer, because he knows we're correct; so he runs away instead, shouting platitudes of "you're all Catholics" and other brain-dead nonsense.

That would make 2 apostolic oneness cult members I've seen run away when they couldn't face the truth. 3, if you count MEE.

NOTE: Thread Moderator, please private message me or e-mail me regarding this post before closing this thread. Thanks!

[ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Don ]