Speaking in tongues

Don · Dec 28, 2001

The only thing I ask, Oneness, is that you honestly and prayerfully, and with a spirit of discernment, consider everything that's been presented to you.

susanpet · Dec 29, 2001

Oneness you believe in Jesus only, right? How can you explain what happened when Jesus died on the cross and He asked why His Father had forsakened Him? At that moment God the Father could not look on His own Son because Jesus had to take the sin of the whole world on Himself. But you can go on believing what you like, it's a free country right? I only know that we will have all the answers when we meet God face to face.
susanpet, ft. blackmore, va

atestring · Dec 29, 2001

Wow!!!
101 post on this subject since it started 12 days ago!!!

I think there must be interest in this subject!!!

ONENESS · Dec 31, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oneness you believe in Jesus only, right? How can you explain what happened when Jesus died on the cross and He asked why His Father had forsakened Him? At that moment God the Father could not look on His own Son because Jesus had to take the sin of the whole world on Himself. But you can go on believing what you like, it's a free country right? I only know that we will have all the answers when we meet God face to face.
susanpet, ft. blackmore, va <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO i do not believe in JEsus Only.... I believe in Jesus Everything.

There is one God, Three manifestations, Jesus is the Name of the Father, Son ANd holy Ghost. He is the fullness of the God head bodly.

About the theif on the cross... There had to be a first and a last person in the Old testament to recieve old testament salvation. He was the last. How can one repent and be baptized and receive the holy Ghost until Jesus dies. Jesus at this point is not dead so the New testament is not in affect.

We all agree that Jesus is 100% man which makes in acceptable to feelings, trials, emotioins, etc but without sin. What I am trying to say is that he had fleshly natures. But why crying out "Father, Why hast thou forsaken me?" It is the Man Crying out. When you take the spirit out of Jesus He dies. B/c His Spirit is the HOly Ghost. God could not look on his own flesh at that moment.

Don · Dec 31, 2001

This is better off being discussed in a new thread.

ONENESS · Dec 31, 2001

What shall we call the new topic

MEE · Dec 31, 2001

ONENESS, don't let them get to you! If they realized what you were trying to tell them, they would hang their heads in shame.

Hold on to what God has given you and don't let anyone deceive you!

MEE

DHK · Dec 31, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MEE:
ONENESS, don't let them get to you! If they realized what you were trying to tell them, they would hang their heads in shame.
Hold on to what God has given you and don't let anyone deceive you!
MEE<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds like MEE is living in fear--afraid to discuss the Scriptures lest he be found out that he is wrong.
Maybe the new topic should be called "baptismal regeneration." That is what it is, isn't it? You cannot be saved without being baptized?
DHK

MEE · Dec 31, 2001

Originally posted by MEE:
ONENESS, don't let them get to you! If they realized what you were trying to tell them, they would hang their heads in shame.
Hold on to what God has given you and don't let anyone deceive you!
MEE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like MEE is living in fear--afraid to discuss the Scriptures lest he be found out that he is wrong.
Maybe the new topic should be called "baptismal regeneration." That is what it is, isn't it? You cannot be saved without being baptized?
DHK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DHK, no I'm not living in fear. Also, I'm not wrong. I am very sure in what I believe.

......cannot be saved without being baptized?

That's right!.....at least that is what the Bible says. (John 3:5 and don't give me that "amniotic fluid stuff either!) I'll have to give the Catholics credit for ONE thing, at least they know that water baptism is a MUST.

I never could figure out why a Baptist is called a "Baptist" and they don't believe in water baptism as a "must" for salvation. Anyone know the answer?

MEE

Don · Jan 1, 2002

The first "Baptists" were actually called "ana-Baptists," due to the fact that they "required" re-baptism as opposed to accepting infant baptism.

Now, MEE, I'm going to ask you to do the same thing I've asked Oneness, especially since you refuse to answer questions and actually discuss this subject: Please prayerfully and honestly review the scriptures and discussion that have been given you by me, Lorelei, and the others.

And remember: If you can't defend your faith, then maybe there isn't anything there to defend. Know whut ah mean, Vern?

susanpet · Jan 1, 2002

MEE & ONENESS- You two sound just like my husband. You all believe you have to be baptized in order to gain salvation. Salvation is a free gift, and nothing you do can earn it. IT'S FREE!! You talk about water more than anything. It's Jesus blood that washes your sins away, not the water. We are baptized to show the world that we have accepted the Lord, to show a good conscience toward God. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
As for the tongue issue, I believe that some people do have this gift. I do not believe that the people who do have it should act like they are closer to GOD than the ones who don't. GOD gives the gifts as He sees fit. Are we suppose to tell the Almighty what gift we want? I believe you should study Corinthians. They were misusing their gifts.
Oneness and Mee, I pray that you have accepted Christ and His redemptive work on the cross. He is the DOOR. NOT WATER BAPTISM. If anyone tries to enter in other than the DOOR, he is the same as a thief and a robber.
May GOD be with you,
susanpet

Daughter · Jan 1, 2002

I've only read through half of the posts here, but I thank GOD for those who, motivated by love for Him, have taken time to expose error, by careful study of the Bible.

I am still learning, still making my mind up about this topic, and this board is a breath of fresh air for me; too often I read messages laced with sarcasm and condescension [sp?] from the cessationist point of view.

I don't believe all Christians HAVE to speak in tongues - even a cursory reading of 1 Corinthians 12 tells me that!

Hey - maybe I'm more baptistic than I thought!

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Daughter ]

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Daughter ]

Lorelei · Jan 1, 2002

susanpet,

I too used to believe that way and I know EXACTLY how you feel. My husband has spoken in tongues and it caused some conflict in our family. I used to say, I believed it was a gift, but just not one that I had. Then my husband's brother tried to tell me that I HAD to speak in tongues and since I had not, I was indeed NOT saved. That made me really want to be sure I knew what I was talking about.

I have been studying this ever since (about 3 years now). Until just recently I held to my belief that it was a gift my husband had, but not myself. As I searched the scriptures and read Acts and 1 Corinthians over and over again I began to question this "gift" more and more. The Bible does say it is a gift, but I have yet for any one person who speaks in tongues to show me where they do it according to the scriptures. The scriptures clearly lay out what tongues are and how they were to be used and no one that I know or have conversed with has yet to show me that what tongue they speak is the one the scriptures is referring to.

Keep searching, find where tongues is described as anything other then a specific language. You can't. Find where Paul encourages us to use it for self edification and you can't. He always said to to use gifts that edified the church. Read 1 Corinthians 12-14 and you will see this. Read the entire book of Acts and you will find that tonuges isn't mentioned as much as others would like to imply that it is.

As I have said, no one, not one person has yet to tell me what tongue they are speaking, and no one, not one has yet to show me scripturally their support that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit. No one, not one person ever will be able to show me that according to scripture, because it just isn't there.

Since it is not, you must then ask yourself, if it isn't the tongue in the scriptures, then what it is? A scary question I have yet to face an answer to.

I am always seeking answers according the Word of God and if someone can prove me wrong..according to the BIBLE then I will admit it. I have and am prayerfully searching the scriptures daily seeking the Truth. I pray that each one here does the same, for I seek not to argue, I seek for others to find the Truth that I have. I seek for others to know the Jesus I know, that they too might have eternal life.

Hang in there and I will keep your husband in my prayers. I have been blessed in that my husband is now searching the scriptures again, not to prove me wrong, or to prove his brother wrong, but to find the Truth. I will keep praying as the Lord continues to reveal that Truth to him.

~Lorelei

wishtolearn · Jan 1, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
susanpet,

I too used to believe that way and I know EXACTLY how you feel. My husband has spoken in tongues and it caused some conflict in our family. I used to say, I believed it was a gift, but just not one that I had. Then my husband's brother tried to tell me that I HAD to speak in tongues and since I had not, I was indeed NOT saved. That made me really want to be sure I knew what I was talking about.

I have been studying this ever since (about 3 years now). Until just recently I held to my belief that it was a gift my husband had, but not myself. As I searched the scriptures and read Acts and 1 Corinthians over and over again I began to question this "gift" more and more. The Bible does say it is a gift, but I have yet for any one person who speaks in tongues to show me where they do it according to the scriptures. The scriptures clearly lay out what tongues are and how they were to be used and no one that I know or have conversed with has yet to show me that what tongue they speak is the one the scriptures is referring to.

Keep searching, find where tongues is described as anything other then a specific language. You can't. Find where Paul encourages us to use it for self edification and you can't. He always said to to use gifts that edified the church. Read 1 Corinthians 12-14 and you will see this. Read the entire book of Acts and you will find that tonuges isn't mentioned as much as others would like to imply that it is.

As I have said, no one, not one person has yet to tell me what tongue they are speaking, and no one, not one has yet to show me scripturally their support that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit. No one, not one person ever will be able to show me that according to scripture, because it just isn't there.

Since it is not, you must then ask yourself, if it isn't the tongue in the scriptures, then what it is? A scary question I have yet to face an answer to.

I am always seeking answers according the Word of God and if someone can prove me wrong..according to the BIBLE then I will admit it. I have and am prayerfully searching the scriptures daily seeking the Truth. I pray that each one here does the same, for I seek not to argue, I seek for others to find the Truth that I have. I seek for others to know the Jesus I know, that they too might have eternal life.

Hang in there and I will keep your husband in my prayers. I have been blessed in that my husband is now searching the scriptures again, not to prove me wrong, or to prove his brother wrong, but to find the Truth. I will keep praying as the Lord continues to reveal that Truth to him.

~Lorelei<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you tell me what they are doing when they do this? i've always been curious on this matter and have not found much to support it. what language is this? Is it a language?

Gloria1 · Jan 1, 2002

While I am not an expert on this a good question to ask is if the gift of tongues is restricted to Christianity only. I've been told that some Muslims also speak in tongues and so do members of non Abrahamic religions. If so, would it trouble you if Bin Laden spoke in tongues?

As for me, tongues were a welcome home present and soon faded into the past.

Gloria

Don · Jan 1, 2002

Wish To Learn, it depends on who you ask.

If you ask Lorelei or myself, it is ALWAYS a language of man, just like in Acts 2. If you look through this thread (I know, there's a LOT here to wade through), I believe I even posted a bunch of verses and showed the Greek words used for "tongue" or "tongues," and they're always referring to a language.

If you ask some Charismatic denominations, it's the "tongue of angels." They base this off of 1 Corinthians 13:1 (which, by the way, is the ONLY verse in the Bible that mentions a tongue of angels).

ONENESS · Jan 2, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> MEE & ONENESS- You two sound just like my husband. You all believe you have to be baptized in order to gain salvation. Salvation is a free gift, and nothing you do can earn it. IT'S FREE!! You talk about water more than anything. It's Jesus blood that washes your sins away, not the water. We are baptized to show the world that we have accepted the Lord, to show a good conscience toward God. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
As for the tongue issue, I believe that some people do have this gift. I do not believe that the people who do have it should act like they are closer to GOD than the ones who don't. GOD gives the gifts as He sees fit. Are we suppose to tell the Almighty what gift we want? I believe you should study Corinthians. They were misusing their gifts.
Oneness and Mee, I pray that you have accepted Christ and His redemptive work on the cross. He is the DOOR. NOT WATER BAPTISM. If anyone tries to enter in other than the DOOR, he is the same as a thief and a robber.
May GOD be with you,
susanpet <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

let me ask you a question. If someone died right now that has never known God, lived in sin and never repented would he go to heaven?

I am guessing that your answer is no.

But tell me is repenting not a work that we do? Yes it is.

But still you say it is free. Why should we have to repent then. Why should we live a Godly Life if it is free. It is free, all we have to do is accept it. Do you agree with that? Please tell me that you do.

How do we accept the free gift?

Duhhhhh by doing what Jesus told us to do.

What did he tell us to do? Be Born again.

Did Peter tell us how to be born agian? Yes Acts 2:38

Did they repent, Yes,
Were they baptized? Yes
Did they speak in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost? Yes

Did they earn there salvation by being baptized? No.

They Just accepted it by being obidient to the scriptures.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> You talk about water more than anything. It's Jesus blood that washes your sins away, not the water. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We talk about that alot b/c we understand how Jesus wants things done and no one else does. So someone needs to shout it from the mountain tops.

Let me say we dont count on baptisim for our salvation, it does not save us, Jesus saves us. We just do what he said to do.

No one disagrees with you here. But we got to get that blood applied(hint) you do that be obeying Acts 2:38 (that is being born of the water and the spirit)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> We are baptized to show the world that we have accepted the Lord, to show a good conscience toward God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out Acts 2:38, Repent and be baptized everyone of you to show the world that you love jesus and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost.

*sigh*

Check out Acts 8: Seems that more had to happen than just believe and baptizeing for the Holy Ghost to fall. No one was doing it to show the world they loved Jesus. they were doing to b/c Jesus told them to do it.

What about the Ethiopien, it was just him and Phillip, did he get baptized to show the world? NOOOOOOOOOOOO it was just him and phillip. He did it b/c he wanted to be born again. Not to show the world. if that was the case he would have gathered the world together. (Use a little common since here people)

Acts 10: Hmmmmm Why would you have to be commanded to be baptized if it was just an outward statement. IF it were not a part of Gods plan it would be up to the individual to get baptized and it would be their choice. So why were they commanded? Duhhh, b/c it is part of the New Birth. Being born of the Water

Acts 19: Hmmmm man John the Baptist baptized these guys, why get wet a second time? To show the world again that you were going to follow Christ. Thats the whole reason why John the Baptist baptized. He baptized them b/c that baptisism that John Baptized was an "OUTWARD STATEMENT TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOU WERE GOING TO FOLLOW CHRIST" What happened when they found that out? Ummm were the rebaptized in the NAME OF JESUS? Well thats what the Bible says but maybe you should read it for your self. And what happened after that? FUNNNY! they spoke in tongues and where were the interpretors?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DUuuuuuuuuuuuHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do not believe that the people who do have it should act like they are closer to GOD than the ones who don't. GOD gives the gifts as He sees fit. Are we suppose to tell the Almighty what gift we want? I believe you should study Corinthians. They were misusing their gifts.
Oneness and Mee, I pray that you have accepted Christ and His redemptive work on the cross. He is the DOOR. NOT WATER BAPTISM. If anyone tries to enter in other than the DOOR, he is the same as a thief and a robber.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Noone should act like they are closer to God, b.c they believe a diffrent way or do seperate things I Think it is out of the will of GOd when people act like this. I feel so far away from God right now that I cant stand it, But I am going to keep serving him the way the bible says. Not b/c I am trying to act better than anyone. I probably worse than any of you guys.

Maybe you guys need to take a closer look. We understand Corinthians. Thats why we can accept the Holy Ghost.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He is the DOOR. NOT WATER BAPTISM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do you guys never throw in repenting with this?

let me make clear to you that all I am trying to do is make a point. You say that all you have to do is repent and believe. I am just trying to show you that repenting is just as much as a work as baptisim

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

Lorelei · Jan 2, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by wishtolearn:

Can you tell me what they are doing when they do this? what language is this? Is it a language? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't tell you because I have not done this. I am not sure what they are doing. I do know that they are not speaking in "tongues" as laid out in the Bible. If it is not of the Bible, then it is not of God.

Gloria is correct. Many religions speak in "tongues" which are un-intelligable mumblings that are caused by whatever god they are worshipping. Muhammad spoke in tongues, does that make him filled with the Holy Spirit? I think not! This is not the same as the "tongues" that are mentioned in the Bible. The word itself "tongue" simply means language. They spoke in languages (not gibberish) as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the scriptures there was to always be an interpretation and if you read Acts chapter 2 you will see that they were referring to specific human languages.

It SHOULD be a language that exists here on earth, but what they are "claiming" it to be is not. So, I don't know what it is.

Don brought out an excellent point. People try to claim this is an "angelic" tongue and there is only one verse to support that claim. Read carefully the first few verses of 1 Corinthians 13 and you will see that Paul was not saying that there WAS a tongue of angels, he was simply using a "what if" example to make a point. If he truly spoke in tongues of angels then he also moved mountains and surrendered his body to be burned. He said "if" he could fathom ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and yet later he admits we can only "know in part and prophesy in part". He said "IF" he spoke in tongues of angels it still wouldn't matter if he didn't have love.

~Lorelei

ONENESS · Jan 2, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>While I am not an expert on this a good question to ask is if the gift of tongues is restricted to Christianity only. I've been told that some Muslims also speak in tongues and so do members of non Abrahamic religions. If so, would it trouble you if Bin Laden spoke in tongues?
As for me, tongues were a welcome home present and soon faded into the past.

Gloria
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for me <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As for you?

To you the HOly Spirit is redundent in Heaven and is an Angel sent to Earth from Mary the Queen of Heaven.

I dont mean to be rude, but I dont think what you think matters much on this topic.

Please do not get offended I dont mean it that way, but you need to understand the Holy GHost before you can understand the gifts.

with love
Brian

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

ONENESS · Jan 2, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MEE:
ONENESS, don't let them get to you! If they realized what you were trying to tell them, they would hang their heads in shame.
Hold on to what God has given you and don't let anyone deceive you!
MEE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like MEE is living in fear--afraid to discuss the Scriptures lest he be found out that he is wrong.
Maybe the new topic should be called "baptismal regeneration." That is what it is, isn't it? You cannot be saved without being baptized?
DHK
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fear, fear is not of God.

Mee is correct on what she believes and on what she says. Why should she take her time to discuss with you when all you want to do is contridict what she says. She is wiser than myself.

BUt I am not going to quit discussing until I am tired of trying to get you to see how God wants you to see. But sooner or latter I guess i will wipe the dust off my feet and move on.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

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