Three People in the God head??? It is what the Bible teaches!

Then what you're proposing is that the bottle represents the flesh, and only a little bit of oxygen is in the body...meaning, only a little bit of God was in the flesh?</font>[/QUOTE]John 18:8
8Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

KJV

When Jesus said "I am he" he was saying the same thing that Moses said to the Pharo. He was saying that I am the creator of the Universe.

 

Then what you're proposing is that the bottle represents the flesh, and only a little bit of oxygen is in the body...meaning, only a little bit of God was in the flesh?</font>[/QUOTE]John 18:8
8Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

KJV

When Jesus said "I am he" he was saying the same thing that Moses said to the Pharo. He was saying that I am the creator of the Universe.

 

Um, Jer? Hate to tell you this, but you just used a verse out of context.

John 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way

They weren't asking Him if He was God; they were verifying that He was Jesus of Nazareth, so that they could arrest Him.

Care to try again?

 

Really easy He allowed Himself to die by willing it.

Don't read the Bible much do you?

YHWH-Yireh Gen 22:14 So Abraham called the name of that place, "YHWH will provide"

YHWH-Nissi Ex 17:15 And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, YHWH is my banner

YHWH-Shalom Judge 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there to YHWH and called it YHWH is peace to this day it still stands at Ophrah, which belongs to the Abiezrites.

The first is the name of a mountain and the second and third are altars.

 

How about you do some thing novel and actually read the Bible, something I don't think you have ever done in your life, instead of trying to sidetrack the discussion.

 

Ok, I will educate you.
Step one locate book called Holy Bible, it may also have written on it King James Version, NIV, NASB, etc.

Step two turn on light.
Step three open the Bible.
Step four turn to page that has verse listed in previous post.
Step five read verse including surrounding verses in immediate vacinity.
Repeat for other verses.

I am going to guess from your attempts to sidetrack the discussion you are ready to concede defeat and admit that the oneness theologians are nothing but false prophets.

 

The scriptures that was given does not prove three persons in the Godhead. This is where there is so much controversy about the Godhead.

Not all Trinitarians believe in Three persons in the Godhead. They say three personalities.

The Bible declares the the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Bodily. It does not state the Father is in a body or the Holy Ghost is a person.

Just because Jesus used the pronoun he when speaking of the spirit did not mean a separate person.

Why in the world would a person in the Godhead be called the Holy Ghost or Holy spirit. A ghost or a spirit is not tangible. A person is tangible.
Also how can a person be poured out.

Let it also be noted that in the Old Testament it speaks of the Spirit of God being upon Kings, Priests and Prophets. How is a person upon another person. Then in the New Testament it speaks of the emanation. The poured out spirit upon man. How can a spirit be poured out?

Then we have the story of the Baptism of Jesus. Trinitarians think this proves their doctrine.
A voice, and a bird. The fleshly body of Jesus is one person but a voice does not prove another person. It can prove the existence of the Father. Also the spirit descending like a dove.
YOu gonna tell me that the person called the Holy Ghost changed himself into a bird? No, it was the visible symbol of the spirit of God entering Jesus.

As far as Jesus' death. It was the humanity. The body that dies on the cross. If you study the gospels it says Jesus was full of the Holy Ghost. That the Holy Ghost descended on him.
So it would be obvious that there was a time during the early part of Jesus life that the deity part of Jesus was not there.

 

Actually, HR, scripture does support a trinity wholeheartedly.

The very chapter that the Oneness Pentecostals like to use to substantiate the practice of speaking in tongues...also speaks of a trinity.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

God raised up Jesus. It does not say God raised up Himself.

"Being by the right hand of God." Who was by the right hand of God? Jesus.

"Having received of the Father." Who received something of the Father? Jesus. Jesus received something from who? The Father.

"Received...the promise of the Holy Ghost." Jesus received what from God? The promise of the Holy Ghost. Doesn't say the promise of God, or of Jesus.

This man Peter, who the Oneness Pentecostals are so fond of quoting in v. 38 (be baptized in the name of Jesus), acknowledged in these two verses the existence of Jesus separate from God, and the Holy Ghost separate from God.

The only way this can be reconciled is through the realization of one godhead consisting of three persons.

The thing Oneness touched upon, and which Mr. Moon completely avoided, was the word "manifest." As Chemnitz pointed out, the word means "reveal or make known."

In 1 Timothy 3:16, God was revealed (made known) in Christ. In John 14:21, Jesus is revealed (made known) in, and through, us. But the context of the word means more than just revealed or made known. To manifest something, in the context in which it was presented, means to "abide in." Yes, I'm adding more to the Greek word translation than the Strong's. I'm attempting to show something from the scripture itself in the way that the word was used.

In John 14:21, if we obey, Jesus will manifest (reveal, make known, abide/live) in us.

In 1 Timothy 3:16, God was revealed/made known/abided in Jesus.

Thus, the attempt to use 1 Timothy 3:16 as a justification that God lived only in the flesh was invalid--as Mr. Moon conceded with his "oxygen in the bottle" analogy.

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These threads tend to get cut off at ten pages. I'd like to post my final comments about the subject here.

Let me say that something I've stated about MEE before still holds true: She rarely provides scripture, instead responding with "these people don't understand because they haven't had the experience!"

Lots of scripture has been provided showing that there is a distinction between the three persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

However, neither side is convincing the other of anything.

Let the topic die.

 

This post contains multiple heresies that were denounced some 1800 yrs ago. I'd have to look it up to remember exact names but I see at least three.

 

The Gospel message is not what is under debate. The nature of God is what is under debate. You are right on one thing I am a theologian and so is anybody who ever thought about what the Bible is saying.

While the OT is not as explicit as the NT on the Triune nature of God, it does have some insight on the nature of God. However, the verses must be read with the entire canon in mind otherwise one will be prone to misunderstanding.

Gen 1;18;16:7-16;19:1,Ex 3:2-4;14:19;23:20;32:34,

 

Chem,

The scripture you quoted does not prove the doctrine of the Trinity. Obviously you believe when it talks about the promise of the Holy Ghost you believe it means something the Holy Ghost or God the Holy ghost was to do, to give or whatever. That is not what this scripture means. The Promise of the Holy Ghost is the promise Jesus made to all believers that they would be filled with the Holy spirit.

Jesus made it pretty clear that the doctrine of the Trinity which states the Father is a person is erroneous because he said the Father is a spirit.

What people cannot get past is certain scriptures such as the right hand of God. This is a metaphor. If you look one scripture says standing on the right hand of God so we think his right hand is being stood on? MEn used human metaphors to try and help our finite mind understand the concept of God. Again the New Testament made a very clear statement about the Godhead when it stated that the FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELLS IN JESUS, BODILY. This is evidence that Jesus is the only person in the Godhead. Does this mean I believe he is the only member of the Godhead. No. He is just the only member who is a person or who has a body.

 

You are assuming that the term person denotes having a body. In the technical language used in the doctrine of the Trinity person does not denote having a physical body.

 

You are assuming that the term person denotes having a body. In the technical language used in the doctrine of the Trinity person does not denote having a physical body.</font>[/QUOTE]Pleeeeaaaaaasssse explain....about how you determine the definition of "person" according to the Trinity!

MEE

 

I have been sitting here reading through all of these posts for some days now and I find it surprising that I have not seen one person who alligns themselves with the Trinitarians use the following verses for substantiation of their position.

"John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come ; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood ," (Re. 1:4-5)

 

Because it obviously doesn't matter if we use that verse, or a dozen like them: Those that reject the thought of three separate persons, while still being one God, will continue to reject that thought no matter how much scripture they're shown.