Would You Fellowship?

I don't agree with the Holy Communion thing or with the one that sounds like a belief in other gods or in the bible alone as a testimony to the truth.
I'd have to have more explanation on these things to make an informed decision, but if it was a church I'd not make it a point to attend there. I wouldn't deny such a believer as a friend, but I don't deny unbelievers as friends either so it's not really saying much either way.
Gina

 

This is a statement often used by Oneness followers. It does not give a statement of faith in the Trinitarian God. If you believe in the Trinity, you should say so. 'Triune' does not cut it, nor does "manifested in three person." Are you UPC or Oneness?

Cannot fellowship with Oneness since their faith is not Christian. Modalism was condemned as a heresy in the 3rd century. Do not want to or have time to debate this as I've already done that on several threads here. Also, am going out of town Tuesday.

I disagree with the way this is stated and is usually applied. I do not believe we were given that authority - I think it was given to the apostles. Will not argue on this, either, as I think it's a waste of time. However, I do not break fellowship over this issue as it is secondary.

I cannot tell from the baptism statement as to whether or not you believe in baptismal regeneration.

 

1. Yes that was the part of it I was referring to on the gods

2. No I do not believe the written bible is the sole authority, although I believe it is the supreme one

Gina

 

Oh, okay! Thanks for clearing that up.

I would be wary of the first statement of faith in the Triune God although some Trinitarians do put it this way. They shouldn't as it does not make it clear what they believe. I have a statement of faith (brief) on my website and I make it very clear that I believe in the Trinity.

If it's not the Trinity, no fellowship.

Also, I have found that some Christian singers or groups will put it this way seemingly so as not to "offend" Oneness people who buy their products.


I think the "very God of every God" is a typo and is supposed to be "very God of very God." That comes from one of the creeds.

They may have been trying to quote the Nicene Creed:

 

Not going on trip until Tuesday. Just don't want to get involved in Oneness debates -- sorry, was overreacting.

Gershom posted

Oneness followers interpret or use "triune" to mean their definition of God manifesting as Father, Son, and HS. In other words, God the Father becomes God the Son becomes the HS. They do not believe that Jesus has a Father; Jesus is the Father. Jesus did not send "another Comforter" like He says He did; Jesus (or God, depending on which variation of Oneness) is the HS.

This statement is a good way to mask non-belief in the Trinity though Trinitarians use "Triune" to mean Trinitarian. It's a matter of how terms are used and the definitions behind them.

 

John 1:1, Jesus Christ is "The Word", the Bible is "the word". Big Doctrinal error here.

 

I had to "slam on brakes" when I got to # 3!

We believe in the diety of Jesus Christ

Sounds good---so far

But "The Incarnation of the Father"---??? When Jesus said He came FROM the Father---and if He's the incarnation of the Father how come He found it necessary to pray TO the Father??

Shouldn't it read--"The Incarnation of God, The Son??" --- since it was God the Son who died on the Cross???

"very God of every God for"

Sounds like Universalism
Sounds like Universal Fatherhood of God---which is a lie!
Sounds like Universal Brotherhood of Man--which also is a lie!

 

How about the Athanasian Creed ?

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Webster's definition of "catholic": of, relating to, or forming the church universal.

Do you believe what's set forth in this creed?

In Christ,

Dale

 

I disagree with points 28 and 44. Many believers throughout history have been saved without being able to articulate the Trinity or the incarnation in anywhere near that level of detail. I believe that a child-like faith is also valid, and that even children (or adults) who don't understand how Jesus is one with the Father yet still a separate person can still be saved. I believe our actions are a better determiner of the validity of our faith than how well we'd score on any exam of doctrinal knowledge (Matthew 25:31-46 is one passage I base this on).

 

John 1 - Jesus is the WORD. No question.


The Bible is the inspired Word of God - a product in essence of the Holy Spirit as Peter states it. (Jesus is not "the Bible").

quote:
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We believe in the Triune God
– the Eternally Self-Existent, "I AM", the Creator of heaven and earth and Redeemer of mankind manifested in three persons; Almighty Father, Divine Son and Holy Ghost. (Genesis 1:1, John 5:7, John 1:1, 4:24, Matthew 10:20, II Corinthians 3:17-18).
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I am not sure this is correct.

The Oneness is that there is only ONE person - and that we see the ONE person in 3 forms at various times.

However this teaching above is that God is ONE and that the ONE God is in THREE REAL persons (as opposed to THREE GOD's in THREE persons). AS the song says "God in THREE persons blessed Trinity".

In that case - that definition of TRIUNE God is acceptable to me.

In Christ,

Bob

 

That's quite alright. I am to blame for being sarcastic. I am sorry. Kinda overflows from the Politics forum, which brings out the worst in me and for which reason I have stayed away from that forum and anything political in my personal life as well.

With that in mind, what do you think of their statement:

What could that mean? Looks like they're saying the Father was incarnate.

I've also heard fundamental Baptists and Baptist preachers pray to the Father, thanking Him for dying on the cross. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks, Gershom. I generally stay away from politics as well, mainly because I am a total cynic about it.

I missed that statement! "Incarnation of the Father" does sound possibly Oneness since one Oneness belief is that they believe that Jesus is the Father.

This makes me wonder even more about their "Triune God."