The Spirit of the Pharisees

I just wanted to start a topic on Pharisees. We can stay on the topic here.

What would a Pharisee look like if we saw one today? What would be their fruits? What examples from the "scriptures" can we list as evidence of a pharisee?

Anyone up for some good digging on a fruit of a Pharisee?

God Bless

Seth3

While rejecting the vibrant, living Word of Jesus Christ — the devil, the lion, the Pharisees, devour those held behind their gates of religion. They refuse the flesh and blood of Jesus. Not only are the leaders devouring the people and making them twofold more the children of hell than themselves, the carnal souls in the church are reduced to spiritual cannibalism. They are boiling their own sons and eating them — and they thought it such a hard saying when Jesus said, "Eat My flesh and drink My blood." O church of God, what have you come to?

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http://www.thepathfinder.org/diet.html

According to your mentor, the Pharisees of today are the leaders of local churches, such as pastors, who sacrifice their children, committing spiritual cannibalism. He believes this because he doesn't believe in God's ordained institution of the local church, and God's ordained office of the pastor and teacher. He rejects the authority of Scriptural teaching, and thus has to resort to allegorization of the Scripture to make it say anything he wants it to say. I am sure that you feel the same way.
DHK

heres a few that are in agreement with what a Pharisee does.

Luke 11:53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge [him] vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Luke 12:1 Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.

Mark 12:13 And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in [his] words.

They are always on your tail trying to "catch you" or "entangle you" with your words for reason to accuse (as Moses accused in who they trust).

They seek to find "a crack" a pin point of fault with anything in order to judge and accuse.

Is this not so true?

God Bless

Seth3

Please DHK Do as you say and please keep to the topic you edited out travelsongs post because you felt he was swayed by the topic. Now according to your own inditement against Him please keep your own decree. and post this where it belongs. I'll only answer you on the topic listed. There is another thread you can post this on.

This is NOT my topic. Nor is the man any more my mentor then you. You ACCUSE falsely.... NOW "THAT" DOES relate to this post shall we discuss THAT?

Seth3

I edited out Travelsong's post because I warned to keep to the topic posted. He posted an attack on me, and a comparison to the music forum, which had nothing to do with the topic that was started.

On the other hand you started a topic here on Pharisees. It is perfectly relevant, in the light of where you have recently been taking your information from, to quote from that source, what your source considers a Pharisee of today is. That is what you wanted to know is it not? I answered your question with the source material that you gave on the other thread. How much more accurate could I have been. What do you mean then by sticking with the topic. I have.
DHK

Like your so above attacks, its pretty evident to all on that one.

The Above post says ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES.

Why? Cause I don't follow the man you quoted who gave his explanation on how he read something (I agreed) I read what he had said and agreed with most of it on the page. As I have said I could have conveyed it better but I have the ability to hold fast to the good and let go of the rest. I don't have to get all bent out of shape over the "little things".

Seth3

The Pharisees were a group or sect of the Jews that arose in the third century B.C. They were the conservatives of Christ's time (in opposition to the Saducees). They developed into self-righteous hypocrites. Their name comes from "parash" meaning "to separate." They were the largest and most influential sect in New Testament times.
That is a brief description of who the Pharisees were at the time of Christ. I detest questions such as yours, because again, they become allegorical in nature. What does the Pharisee of the time of Christ represent today. He represents the Pharisee that no longer lives. He lived in the time of Christ and no longer lives today. There is no need to project a group of people from the past into the future today. Again we can learn Biblical principles from the situations that they provided for us in the passages of Scripture in which they are found, and also in which Jesus said about them. However, there are no Pharisees of today. There is no need for allegorization of Scripture.
DHK

Ok I now understand that DHK believes that the Spirit of the hypocritical Pharisees is only a certain group that lived at a certain time. That this is literal and that you cannot see the Spirit of the Pharisee today because to do that would be to "Allegorize" and that is not good in DHK's eyes.

Ok... Thank you DHK that was very insightful to your position.

Is there anyone else who sees the "Spirit" of the Pharisees as a reality today? Or is it a dated literal sect with nothing to show us today? The Pharisees represent hypocritical liars that may come in Christs Name.

If we are to know others by their fruit. What would the fruit of a Pharisee look like today?

Or do you believe as DHK believes that hypocricy (Spirit of the Pharisee) is something that happened only in Jesus's day? Making it "non allegoric" (but literal) thus making hypocrits void today?

Any thoughts from anyone else


God Bless

Seth3

You misrepresent me Seth.
There are quite obviously hypocrites today, or as you say, those with a hypocritical spirit. Does that necessarily mean that they have the Pharasaical spirit within them? Of course not. Why must you allegorize like that. Jesus condemned hypocrisy without ever referring to the Pharisees many times. So did Paul, and so did the O.T. prophets before the Pharisees ever existed. Hypocrisy is a sin that existed in all ages, not just a sin of the Pharisees. To equate it with just the Pharisees is wrong. To say it is the spirit of the Pharisees is wrong. It is a sin, one of many condemned in the Bible. The Pharisees committed it, and so did others (such as Ananias and Sapphira).

Sin is sin. God hates all sin, no matter what it is. There are only certain sins that God has attached to certain individuals or groups of people. I will give you two. If you can think of some others go ahead and name them, by here are two for starters.

1. Sodomy: homosexuality named after the inhabitants of the wicked city of Sodom.

2. Simony: giving or taking money in order to gain a position of higher prominence in a church. It comes from the story in Acts 8 about Simon:

Acts 8:18-20 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Simony)

God hates all sin.
DHK

Then there are those who would want to throw a big party and if they did that, everyone would want to come to their church because it would be so much fun. They would be the kind of church that loves people so much that they think everyone would want to know Jesus just be the fact they exist. They would not even think of sharing their faith for fear that it might offend someone and not be a very good witness. But they would share their facility with the Mormons in a effort to be good neighbors. Certainly they wouldn't want to stir up trouble because that might scare some away. After all they are trying to reach everyone. They would love to have the Mormon bishop come and teach them because they think he is a Christian because he says all the right things.

They wouldn't have any problem telling the congregation, "The steaks are ready" while the preacher is giving the invitation. They know it is important to tell the pastor to quit preaching because it is time to eat. That kind of Pharisee values steak more than the bread of life. He knows what is important for his body to exist in America and what is important to win people to Jesus. That kind of Pharisee would gossip and talk about the preacher expressing his opinion on how many people are coming into the church whom they do not know and taking away their power. So they would need to get rid of him. He just has too much power because people are giving their life to Jesus. Those kind of Pharisees wouldn't want the preacher to share his faith with the Mormons because he might stir up too much trouble in their little community causing them to look bad because for 60 years they have been trying to reach them but just have not been able to. The pastor needs to go because the Pharisees have been trying to reach their neighbors and he will make them look bad.

DHK says

You misrepresent me Seth.
There are quite obviously hypocrites today, or as you say, those with a hypocritical spirit. Does that necessarily mean that they have the Pharasaical spirit within them? Of course not.

Seth3 replies,

Jesus said beware of the LEAVEN of the Pharisees which is hypocicy ALLEGORICALLY. So I equate as my THREAD suggests an ALLEGORY of the SPIRIT (or leaven) of the Pharisees. I did not think I misrepresented your words according to my post at all.

They would die in their sin of UNBELIEF.

They professed God and all the scriptures, Abraham as their Father, WON converts, tithed a tenth of everything. But had an outward FORM of godliness (outside the cup) but denied the power of God to clean the inside. They profess God but do not obey Him. Like loved the best seats in the Synagauge, they lord over peoples faith. They sit in wait to trap people in their words. They are pretentious. Hypocrits, liars, they say they love God but hate their brothers. They sit on Moses' seat they judge others. They consider themselves better then others, they look down on everyone else. Their table is a snare and a trap. They are wolves in "sheeps clothing". They devour others. Backbiters slanderers, accusers. They have no fruit of the Spirit (Love joy and peace in the Holy Spirit). They don't know they are blind, and lead others after them. They make their followers twice the son of hell then themselves. They seek to kill steal and destroy what the holy Spirit has born in the life of the true believer.

They are MISERABLE (Not joyfulin the Lord) BLIND (cant see, though they claim to) and NAKED under the law (Not covered by faith in the blood of Christ) where they both sit and judge by which no man will be made perfect.

Seth3

The best summation of the pharisees is that they judged by outward appearances.

They saw holiness as observing rituals and making a public display of their "piety".

They were the guys praying out loud for everyone to see. They were the guys who would condemn everyone else without examining the sin of their own hearts.

Jesus saw right through their phony displays of righteousness. He saw directly into their hearts.

Do we see examples of Pharisees today? Absolutely, this board is filled with them.

God does see the heart Travelsong. Whatever is hidden from others is not hidden from Him. Amen.

The things that they do, is thought to be doing a service to God. Both in expelling the Lords people and in the THAT day.

Whatever you did to the least of these brothers of mine you did it unto me.


God bless

Seth3

Well said Travelsong.

I won't accuse anyone here of being a Pharisee. But I think the spirit of Pharisaism is alive and well today.

I can see that this discussion seems ready to enter the realm of legalism in churches so I won't abet that!

Pharisaism in our churches can be seen in the form of the church member who sees only the outward appearance of things. The snooty trustee's wife who shuns a visitor because she's wearing pants or is unmarried with kids (without knowing why she is so). Similarly the one who says a teen is not right with God because he listens to CCM is Pharisaic.

Christ reproves sin with love.

The Pharisee judges the person he/she perceives to be sinful - and does so in a manner not consistent with Christian love.

Let me add to that good word too Charles.

The Woman caught in adultery the Pharisees notably accused her by the Law of Moses. They sit on Moses Seat as Jesus said and Trust Moses in who Jesus said they did.


Seth3

Seth,

Did you ever notice how hard it is for people to see a Pharisee>

Here's what I mean; Nobody ever admits that they themselves are the Pharisee. It's always someone else!!

No matter how many times someone is shown the truth, it could not possibly be them!!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

The Pharisees knew the truth. But they hardened their hearts, they did not want to believe.
They believed Jesus would be resurrected, Jesus's disciples did not. They also saw the miracles but this did not make them turn around.
They did not want to repent.
I would say a Pharisee in our times is somebody who is carnal, who tries to fulfill the Law and who thinks he can enter heaven by doing good deeds. This reminds me of the catholic church doctrine....

Tam,

Your right

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

John 9:40 And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Jon 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.


Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Romans 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Everyone can be a Pharisee even Paul himself was one before the Lord gave him sight. He said we too used to be among them hating and being hated. Thats the passing over from death (Carnal mind) into Life (Spirit).

Look at Jimbo, he's doing his homework. Alright... Yes Jim worship the work of their hands and looking down on others. Thinking they are better then this "tax collector or sinner" in self righteousness. Its not Gods righteousness but their own.


God Bless

Seth3

It's like the saying, "If you don't see the problem, you are."

Originally posted by JimboJones:

I would say a Pharisee in our times is somebody who is carnal, who tries to fulfill the Law and who thinks he can enter heaven by doing good deeds. This reminds me of the catholic church doctrine....

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Also the religious folks, the Pharisees added to the law and burdened people down with all their rules and regulations. Jesus doesn't do that. Anyone who would set up rules and regulations that become a burden to people and keeps them from the freedom Jesus gives is a Pharisee.