To worship scholarship.

Tell me how would someone be lead astray by the above passages?

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The end of the world or the end of an age?

I personally believe it is speaking to the end of the Old Covenant Age. Others would interpret it to be the end of the Church Age. However is one sees the word "world" not knowing the greek word, one would probably assume the end of the cosmos/planet. Big difference.

Hmmmmm...

Explain? "Gird up the loins of one's mind" without resorting to previous studies, once they've been made.

But, 2 Corinthians 10:4-6

{4}(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds {5}Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; {6}And having in a readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

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Gives a clue that we are to strengthen our resolve to think 'rightly' and to discipline our thought lives...
There are Scriptures that talk about putting on the mind of Christ, let this mind be in you, think on these things, etc...

So without scholarship or the Greek...

I would say that girding up the loins of ones minds entails (oops!) studying to show one self approved unto God... Rats... can't get away from that scholarship!

Not too many takers on that one since I posted it some time ago. So what does "gird up the loins of your mind mean?"
It is my contention that you cannot find out the meaning of that verse without depending on some outside source--some sort of scholarsip somewhere.

The soldiers and farmers of that day wore long robes for their casual wear in the market place. When the farmers went to work in the field, or the soldiers went to battle, they had to pull those robes up almost to their waist. They had to "gird" them up, so that they would be prepared for the work that they were about to do (whether it would be farming in the field or fighting a battle). The robes would only entangle or impede their work. They needed to be prepared for battle or the work to be done.

Likewise the Christian needs to be prepared for the battle. Prepare your minds for the battle that is ahead; for the work that you have before you. The Christian is always to be prepared--to gird up the loins of his mind. Be prepared for any eventuality.
You cannot get that information and that meaning without outside scholarship or sources.
DHK

Originally posted by DHK:
Not too many takers on that one since I posted it some time ago. So what does "gird up the loins of your mind mean?"
It is my contention that you cannot find out the meaning of that verse without depending on some outside source--some sort of scholarsip somewhere.

The soldiers and farmers of that day wore long robes for their casual wear in the market place. When the farmers went to work in the field, or the soldiers went to battle, they had to pull those robes up almost to their waist. They had to "gird" them up, so that they would be prepared for the work that they were about to do (whether it would be farming in the field or fighting a battle). The robes would only entangle or impede their work. They needed to be prepared for battle or the work to be done.

Likewise the Christian needs to be prepared for the battle. Prepare your minds for the battle that is ahead; for the work that you have before you. The Christian is always to be prepared--to gird up the loins of his mind. Be prepared for any eventuality.
You cannot get that information and that meaning without outside scholarship or sources.
DHK

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Let say you did not know that they had to pull those robes up almost to their waist.

could you not still tell that you had to ready your mind. Would this pervert some dogma or doctrine

"13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; "

Originally posted by John3v36:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Not too many takers on that one since I posted it some time ago. So what does "gird up the loins of your mind mean?"
It is my contention that you cannot find out the meaning of that verse without depending on some outside source--some sort of scholarsip somewhere.

The soldiers and farmers of that day wore long robes for their casual wear in the market place. When the farmers went to work in the field, or the soldiers went to battle, they had to pull those robes up almost to their waist. They had to "gird" them up, so that they would be prepared for the work that they were about to do (whether it would be farming in the field or fighting a battle). The robes would only entangle or impede their work. They needed to be prepared for battle or the work to be done.

Likewise the Christian needs to be prepared for the battle. Prepare your minds for the battle that is ahead; for the work that you have before you. The Christian is always to be prepared--to gird up the loins of his mind. Be prepared for any eventuality.
You cannot get that information and that meaning without outside scholarship or sources.
DHK

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Let say you did not know that they had to pull those robes up almost to their waist.

could you not still tell that you had to ready your mind. Would this pervert some dogma or doctrine

"13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; " </font>[/QUOTE]WHAT does "don't go off half cocked" mean.
do you have to know how the term came about to understand what it means?

Why are none of the disciples called Pastor Paul or Pastor Peter? Perhaps because the Lord didn't mean this to be so. Matthew 23:8 "But be not ye called Rabi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." Man has a natural tendency to look at himself higher when he has met the requirements set by the world in order to be something or someone. For example, going to seminary or bible school to meet the requirements to be a pastor or priest etc. The Lord said all ye are brethren - equals. One is not higher or better than another. Why do church leaders take their place at the front of the church elevated above the congregation? I think if everyone was honest, they would conclude that most church leaders do consider themselves above the layman because of their education. The titles of pastor, teacher is not meant for man to attribute to himself. You can hold an office without holding a title.

I'm not sure if everyone is on the same page regarding the definition of scholarship.

I consider a biblical "scholar" to be one who has studied the languages, culture, and history behind the bible and uses this to help us learn more about the bible. Again - there is nothing inherently evil here.

Over the centuries Christians have come up with a number of explanations of things in the bible. Premillenial dispensationalism and young earth creationism are considered the "norm" by many. And I think that many people will label anyone who feels differently a "liberal" or one who worships scholarship and not God.

I consider a biblical "scholar" to be one who has studied the languages, culture, and history behind the bible and uses this to help us learn more about the bible. Again - there is nothing inherently evil here.

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I agree.

But, being a Biblical Scholar does not guarantee that the person is "Spiritual" or renders the 'learning' in a "Spiritual" manner.

Just because a person has a Doctorate of Divinity does not mean they are "divine" or "divinely inspired".

Some are decidedly not... (Spiritual, that is.)

It is this inclination to place a person on a pedestal because they have a degree, irregardless of their fruits, profession, or apparent Spirituality, that is the rub...

That I have a problem with...

I also have a problem with the arrogance *some* 'scholars' have whereby because they have the degree they automatically understand all things perfectly, even Spiritual Things...

Sorry, James 3:17 says, "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."

This means I don't need a Phd (Piled Higher Deeper ) to understand or receive God's Truth or Wisdom.

Now, Paul also said to Study to show oneself approved unto God... (And, as an after thought? to man...)

Who are we studying to be approved by? What is our first priority God, or Men?

The priority is the clue. IMHO

"This means I don't need a Phd (Piled Higher Deeper ) to understand or receive God's Truth or Wisdom."

I've always hated that saying!!!!!

True a PhD does not make one spiritually wise. But the obverse is certainly also not true - that a PhD makes one less spiritually wise.

I have an MD - that doesn't make me better than anyone else and doesn't necessarily mean that I can help a sick person better than someone else. It does however mean that I probably know more about the human body than most others.

A PhD in theologic studies doesn't make one closer to God or able to understand His will better. It does make him or her more knowledgeable about biblical study.

Now not every PhD person chooses to use his/her degree to further God's glory but then that's a different matter.

Don't you want to know more about the bible????

I do.

Like I said before - do we stand on Christ the rock or Christ the slippery rug, easily pulled out from under us. I'm not afraid of what science or archeology will teach me. And if an age old man made doctrine is false - well then I'd rather know!

A bishop/pastor is elevated above laity in the Pastoral Epistles, namely in I Timothy 3:1-4.

A Deacon has to prove himself to be worthy of this position in the church. Notice: 3:8-13.

Elders are in charge of the spiritual welfare of all of God's people and have an elevated standing, among the other children of God. [5:1] 'Elders who rule well must be counted worthy of double honor . . . ' [5:17]

II Timothy 2:2 distinguishes between worthy, faithful men and those who are not to be used in ministry.

'The servant of the Lord is found patient and able to teach [vs. 24] while other brethren are in need of repentance.

Some are called to be evangelists. [4:5] will others will not endure sound doctrine. [4:3]

How could anyone think that all brethren {men and women} have the same standing among the congregation. With this in mind anyone should try to preach the Gospel. God's high standards are found in these two Pastoral Epistles.

Wow! Now I have heard it all.

Dr. Berrian, Th.D.

Charles,

Sorry... Phd only means *that* when there is not enough humility left to muck out the stalls anymore.

And, yes! I do want to know more about Him who redeemed me, His ways, and dealings...


As for people being "elevated"... I guess you'd say God is no respector of persons... But, man is expected to be so?

I always saw leadership as worthy of double honor, especially those that lead well...

But, not as if anyone is better than I... Positionally responsible and accountable to God, yes... Worthy of my respect, yes...

Perhaps, even to be pitied in that a leader is held to a higher accounting and more severe punishment.

Pride and humility is a matter of the heart/soul.

Some people are proud of their ignorance and are belligerent as well. Some studied persons are humble and are scholars.

Some Christians know more about the Bible than liberal scholars who have studied and earned a graduate degree.

Someone said, 'Sorry... Phd only means *that* when there is not enough humility left to
muck out the stalls anymore.'

One of the first things that I learned in Bible College was, 'Don't make broad generalizations,' or another way of saying it is, 'Do not broad brush all groups of people the same way.' It marks you out as being way below the norm of human beings.

Jesus will judge each of us [John 5:22b]and will reward us accordingly as Christians. [I Corinthians 3:13-15.

Some of us have degrees... Some from broad backsides... some from broad backs...

Paul's excellent education was 'tempered' by years on the back side of the desert. Not to mention a Heavenly "2 by 4".

The lack of a 'paper' degree doesn't mean that "scholarly study" hasn't been done.

Of course not broadening ones backside in a 'class' does make one limted in the number of 'proper' buzz words one can use, doesn't it.

I am always open to a scholar "sharing" a truth with me from God's Word...

But, it's the Truth of God's Word that impresses me... Not the degrees...

In fairness, though, a degree *does* show that a person had the time to be serious about their studies. It also means they quite probably have been exposed to information which I have not had access to in self study or life experiences.

But, if you expect me to jump when you say jump just because you have a degree... Never gonna happen...

Share with me, Show me where The Word of God says jump based your studies and you'll get a good long listen.

I *do* have respect for many scholars, not all, but more than not... But, I will not bow down...

After all that is what this thread is supposed to be about... The "worship" of scholarship.

And, people with Phd's put in a lot of time, effort, and heart to gain that degree. I don't mean to minimize it.

But, by poking a bit of fun... Put it into "eternal" perspective...

I'll not argue that many PhDs are doing alot more to harm God's church than help it...

But I somewhat resent the idea that anyone with a leather-bound bible, a cheap grey suit, and a hack in his voice can call himself an "expert" on God's word. I've seen some of the damage that ignorant people can do!

Now that being said - my father in law never got past high school but has self-studied extensively and is hands down better than any seminary-trained preacher I've ever heard.

I personally consider theology my favorite hobby. I have several walls lined with academic language books and commentaries. But I call this my HOBBY since the gospel and theology are different. The gospel is simple as pie - truly Christ has made it such that even a little child could understand! The study of theology and some of the particulars of language, history, and archeology is different. These are academic disciplines and those with training will know more than those without (generally).

Take the age of the earth for exapmle. This has nothing to do with the gospel. Why is it that if a theologian suggests the earth is not only 6000 years old he/she is branded a liberal, or one who worships science instead of God? Does someone like Josh McDowell or John Ankerberg REALLY know as much physical science as someone with an advanced degree in the field?? Of course not! But because these men's views are more in line with traditional ones they are "real scholars" and the real scientists are the bad guys!!