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Christ's Regal Millennium

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ray Berrian, Jul 29, 2003.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The "difference" in this case is not whether or not Christ would set up an Earthly kingdom and sit on David's throne - on earth after His return.

    Both views assert this - but the description of how total and complete that rule will be - differs.

    In one case - Christ returns - appears in the sky - resurrects the righteous and raptures the saints - and takes them to heaven - and then returns some number of years later - and sets up His earthly kingdom on earth.

    In the other view - I presented in my previous post -- exactly the SAME thing happens. The main difference being that the TIME spent in heaven - is 1000 years - while the earth is desolated - as predicted in the OT.

    But after that 1000 years - Christ still comes back and sets up His earthly kingdom. He rules on David's throne Rev 22 - after destroying the wicked in the lake of fire in Rev 20-21, at the end of the period of time where the raptured church was in heaven (the 1000 years).

    And this is because the 1000 year "clock" begins ticking (according to Rev 20) when the Rapture occurs "The First resurrection" the resurrection of the saints that we see in Rev 20 and 1Thess 4. The "focus" of the NT church that "Fixed their hope Completely on the grace to be brought to them at the revelation of Jesus Christ" 1Peter 1:13.

    The NT church that "groaned" in anticipation of the redemption of the body (Romans 8) is told by John the that "First Resurrection" is the resurrection of the righteous, begins the 1000 year clock - and therefore is the "amount of time" spent in heaven after the 1Thess 4 "event" in fulfillment of Christs John 14:1-3 statement "I GO to prepare a PLACE for you, and if I GO I WILL come AGAIN and receive you to Myself that where I AM there you MAY BE also".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Bob Ryan,

    How did you come up with the concept of 1,000 years of the church in Heaven? I have never heard of this and never have read it in the Old or New Testament.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Rev 19 described in detail the appearing of Christ.

    Rev 20 describes the resurrection of the righteous "the First Resurrection" as John sees the future. And John tells us that this starts the 1000-year clock ticking.

    Paul tells us of this same event in 1Thess 4- the resurrection of the righteous at the return of Christ.

    John 14 tells us that Christ plans to return and take us to heaven - to the place He went to prepare for us. So basically the rapture of the church - is starting that 1000 year clock.

    But in that case - all the texts quoted above - about a "desolate" planet - where there is "no man" - applies to that 1000 year period on earth while Christ is reigning with His saints in heaven.

    But still - as Rev 20 and 21 go on describe - Christ returns at the end of the 1000 years - lights up the lake of fire - judges the wicked, creates a new heaven and new earth and rules on earth with the saints - fullfilling all the OT promises regarding the glory and blessing of His literal reign on Earth.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    If Christ were to reign in Heaven for a thousand years, He would not have needed to bring up David's name in Psalm 132:11. Here is the quote. 'The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; He will not turn from it. Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.' Some generations down from David Christ would be born in Bethlehem and at a future time after the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus will sit on David's throne which was in Jerusalem. The Prophet Zechariah predicts this will yet take place in our world. [Micah 5:5; Ezekiel 48:35c; Zechariah 14:4,17; Revelation 20:9c; 21:2]
     
  5. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Marten H. Woudstra, Th.D. suggests that the prophecy of Zechariah was spoken 520 years before the virgin born Son. This then, places Solomon's Temple 500 years before Zechariah's times.

    Zerubbabel's Temple was completed in 515 B.C. and that completion was encouraged by the prophets Zechariah and Haggai.

    'Herod the Great 37-40 some years B.C. was an indefatigable builder. . . . the house itself was finished in a year and a half . . . . the surrounding buildings and courts were finished in 64 A.D.' Dr. Merrill C. Tenny, "The Zondervan Pictoral Bible Dictionary, Zondervan Publishing House, p. 834.

    All of the Temples were erected before the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and yet the Lord declares that He will choose Jerusalem once more. [Zech. 2:12] If our Lord was speaking of a present time and just before the Intra-Testamental Period when no prophets spoke, He would not have said that He would have chosen ' . . . Jerusalem again.' By such a declaration He was and is saying that God is going to bring in again the Israelite nation to enjoy the salvation experience. The N.T. also documents these facts. [Romans 11:1-36]

    In verse twelve of Zechariah chapter two our Lord tells us that His tribe the Tribe of Judah [Rev. 5:5] will welcome Him into the Tribe of Judah's portion of the land of Israel. [Ezekiel 45:8c; 47:21; 48:7;48:29] Since Zechariah's prophecy was after all the temples were built, He then, absolutely, has to be speaking about His future Millennial Temple after the era of the Great Tribulation and Second Coming has taken place.

    Other references to the covenant that will never be broken by the Lord Jesus are found in Amos 9:11, where Amos points back to ' . . . the days of old,' and to the future raising up of the tabernacle/Temple of David, which will occur during the Millennium.

    Jeremiah 33:20-21 that the Davidic covenant cannot be broken, meaning that it is eternal and that David will have a son who will reign and sit on his throne. Who is the son? It is the royal son by way of Judah's inheritance, the Christ of God. [Matthew 1:2] points to the son of the regal line from Abraham, to Isaac and Jacob, the man Judah. From there the lineage moves to King David, King Solomon, and the King of all kings, Jesus Christ the son of Mary, the mother of our Lord. [vs. 18]

    In Micah 4:7 we are told that the Israelite people who went into captivity will become at a future time, namely 1948, a new and strong nation. The King who will reign in Mount Zion will be the King the lord of hosts. His reign will be forever as pointed to in the latter part of verse seven. Also, notice Isaiah 9:7 and Isaiah 15:5.

    This is what makes the 'symbolical, typical and allegorical' method of interpretation invalid and system of theology that destroys eschatological truth needed by all Gentiles and Israelite people.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is a "shared trait" of the pre-trib AND mid-trib AND (this post trib) views - that Christ returns as in 1Thess 4, raptures the church and takes us to heaven (as in John 14:1-3 and 1Thess 4) and then returns to setup His throne on Earth. (As in Rev 22:1-3 in my view).

    In all three views - Christ returns - and sets up His throne on earth.

    In the view I mention - He returns with all the saints and does it - as Rev 20-22 describe.

    The difference in the views is not that Christ raptures the church and takes us to heaven. All three views assert that same point.

    The difference in the views is not the Christ THEN returns and sets up His throne on earth - seated on David's throne - on Earth. All three views assert that point.

    The difference IS that my view insists that when John sees the future and described "The First Resurrection" in chapter length detail along with the appearing of Christ in chapter length detail (in Rev 19) - he is speaking of the SAME event that Peter says to "Fix your hope completely on" 1Peter 3:13.

    In other words - the view I support has John spending 3 chapters on the singular event that the entire NT text is telling us to "focus on".

    That is "the" difference in the views.

    My view insists that the First resurrection "over which the 2nd death has no power" IS the resurrection of the righteous - the dead in Christ - that we see in 1Thess 4.

    The other views suppose that there is a "first-er resurrection" that is BEFORE the one in Rev 20 that John calls "the First resurrection". (A phrase found only once in all of scripture).

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As Romans 11 states - the OT promises are made to the "Faithful" children of the promise NOT to the children of the "flesh". And "we" are included in those promises (as the text of Rom 9 and 11 both affirm).

    Israel is truly returned and truly receives the promises When Christ returns after rapturing the church.

    As Paul states in Heb 11 (end of chapter) they did NOT receive what was promised - because apart from US (the NT church) they would not receive it. WE TOO are part of that group that "inherits" the promises as we see in Daniel 7 - Christ receives the kingdom and then the saints a given that kingdom.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Bob Ryan,

    I agree with your post relative to Romans chapter eleven. Good! I hope the other brethren understand it as we do.

    Romans chapter eleven speaks of the blinding, generally speaking, of the Israelite nation. [vs. 7] This does not mean there will be no Jewish people saved during the age of grace/this church age, but generally they will refuse to come under the care of the church. This passage also means that the Jews will be revisited by God and will come to know and love Christ some during the Great Tribulation and the rest of them in the Kingdom Age on this earth. [vs. 24 & 26] Ezekiel chapter thirty-seven also testifies that 'the whole house of Israel as dry bones' will come to life at a future time. It is most obvious that they have not received national, spiritual revival in the Christian sense to date. The Holy Spirit will still be active during the theocratic Kingdom of Christ during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on the earth. [Ezekiel 37:14; Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6, and 7]

    After Israel became a nation in 1948 she has been well on her way by way of prosperity and military might in preserving her own people. This is also promised in [37:22] along with the fact that Jesus Christ after His Second Coming will be the King mentioned in [Ezekiel 37:22; Micah 5:5; Zechariah 14:4, 9,17]
     
  9. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The noteworthy theologian, Dr. Charles C. Ryrie, says that {King} David will be a regent in the Millennial Kingdom. {Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 37:24-25} . . . . Authority over the twelve tribes of Israel will be vested in the hands of the Twelve Apostles (Matt. 19:28). Other princes and nobles will likewise share in governmental duties (Isa. 32:1; Jer. 30:21) . . . . the Parable of the Minas (Lk. 19:11-27) indicates that those who have proved their faithfulness will be given much authority. The church, too, will have a part in governing the earth (Rev. 5:10). Though many of the normal procedures of government will be carried out by subordinates, Christ will be King over all.' Dr. Charles C. Ryrie, Basic Theology, Moody Press, p. 593-594.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Is it your position that Ezek 37:22 is speaking of a rebelious nation of Israel that is brought back in open rebellion against their messiah and restored to their homeland in all-out rebellion against Christ?

    In the return to Israel (from Babylon) that actually "did" follow the days Ezekiel - they returned "in obedience, repentance and true worship" of God.

    This is nothing like their condition of open rejection of the Messiah today.

    Are you arguing that the future return predicted by Ezekiel (and accomplished in the days future to Ezekiel - the days Ezra) - is not the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy - but rather the current rebellion and apostacy is that fulfilled return?

    I find that confusing.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Here is the basic order of God's future events.

    The next even will be the rapture of the church to Heaven; immediately after the rapture into Heaven we will go through the Judgment Seat of Christ as He evaluates our works, efforts for Him while here. After this Jesus will come to earth as noted in Rev. 19 called the Second Coming of Christ with His saints of which we will be a part. After this He will take us into the 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth where He will minister His Divine Theocracy from Jerusalem. During this Millennial reign of Christ on the earth, Satan will be bound. [Rev. 20:2] The wicked dead will be physically raised from their graves at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth. [20:5] The saved will have been raised 1,007 years previously, at the rapture. [I Thess. 4:17] After the resurrection of the wicked dead, [Rev. 20:5] all of the wicked will appear before Christ's Great White Throne Judgment. [Rev. 20:11] After this Jesus will give to people the New Heaven and the New earth. [Rev. 21:1]

    The term 'But the rest of the dead . . . in Revelation 20:5 indicates that some were raised earlier, which of course were those who died in faith toward and in Jesus. 'The rest of the dead are the lost souls who will be damned forever in the Lake of Fire. You do not want to be among 'the rest of the dead.'

    This will give a brief panorama of what is going to happen according to God's Divine planning as documented in the Bible.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In Rev 20 we see "THIS is the First resurrection" speaking of those that come to life in the Rev 19 "event".

    But "the rest of the dead" refers to those that did not come to life in that "first resurrection" that occurs at the appearing of Christ seen in Rev 19.

    In 1Thess 4 - Paul describes the same event - showin us that at that one future point in time - at the appearing of Christ "The Dead in Christ Rise". It is that premillenial - "First Resurrection" at the global "event" we see in Rev 19 - that is called "The First Resurrection" in Rev 20.

    The "First resurrection" is the focal point of the NT church according to Romans 8 (regarding the future redemption of the body) and 1Thess 4 (and 1Peter 1:13). We are to "Fix our hope completely" on that event. And so when John sees it - he clearly identifies it as "the First resurrection".

    With that resurrection - the 1000 year clock begins ticking.

    So at His appearing - He who has "Gone to prepare a place for us" Comes again and receives us unto Himself. And then 1000 years later - He returns with His holy ones - and establishes His earthly kingdom - on the earth made new.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    I am presently reading a book called, "This Is My God" written by Herman Wouk which was copyrighted in 1959, under the Doubleday & Company, Inc., publication in Garden City, New York. It is beginning to give me an idea about what some Israelites believe about their faith and nation.

    Herman Wouk dedicated the book to the memory of his grandfather and teacher, Mendel Leib Levine, rabbi in Minsk, New York, and Tel Aviv.

    Here is a statement from him. 'The Torah prophesied that a remnant of the people would survive in a long agony of exile, undergoing ordeals of wandering and persecution; that they would never die out; and that in the far after time they would return to Israel to live by the law of Moses, and to be a light to the nations. Of this vast drama, most of the acts have long since passed from prophecy into history. Some Christians indeed hold that the curtain went down on the whole story for ever two thousand years ago. We Jews believe--- it is cardinal to our faith---that the last acts are still to come.'

    I want to pick up on what Herman said. ' . . . and that in the far after time they would return to Israel to live by the law of Moses, and to be a light to the nations.' During the Great Tribulation the 144,000 [Rev. 7:1-9] and the two witnesses of Revelation chapter eleven will herald the message that people need to repent because Jesus will be coming in His Second Coming. These Israelite, Christian believers will be a radiant light to the world of nations.

    In Zechariah 14 it is suggested that Christ will dispatch messengers during the Kingdom Age to convert and bring in the Gentile nations. Many will journey to Jerusalem to see Christ seated in His royal Theocracy on this earth. [Zechariah 14:9 & 17]

    Herman Wouk also said, 'Some Christians indeed hold that the curtain went down on the whole story forever, two thousand years ago.' Many Catholics and other Amillennialists
    like Reformed Baptists believe that God has forever cut of grace to all Israelites and that we are now either in the Great Tribulation or the Millennial Kingdom.

    And lastly, Wouk said, 'We Jews still believe-it is cardinal to our faith-that the last acts are still to come.' [page 24] Pretribulationists also believe as do some Jewish people that many eschatological events are still unfulfilled. Things like: the rapture of the church, the Great Tribulation, the Second Coming of Christ, the Millennial Kingdom, the binding of Satan for 1,000 years, the resurrection of the wicked, the Great White Throne Judgment {only for sinners} and the New Heaven and the New earth.

    Jewish rabbinical theologians know the truth about end time events. Some Christians need to do their homework and then they will catch up to those of us who know the truth.

    It seems that some Jewish rabbis and other believers have a better understanding of eschatology than do some Christian people. But, then the rabbis focus on the Old Testament promises of the Lord and see that much has not yet taken place in our lost world.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The orthodox Jews believe that Satan is a "good angel" and also adopt evolutionism instead of the Bible account.

    It is not surprising that they cling to the promises of the OT as "promises to the children of the flesh" rather than Messianic - believers accepting Christ and following in obedience.

    However - in Romans 11 the point is made clearly that they are cast out of the vine - and can only return if they "do not continue in unbelief". There is no "other way".

    Further - we are told in Hebrews 8 that the OT system of sacrifices ended. In fact in Heb 7 we are told that with the change of the priesthood came a change of the laws regarding sacrifices and role of priests - transferring it to the ONE priest - our High Priest - Jesus Christ - in the Heavenly temple.

    To argue for - earthly priests, earthly sacrifices After the death of Christ - is to seek to reject the High Priestly work of Christ (the great antitype) and return to the work of the system of "shadows" and "types" pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ.

    Hebrews 10 states that "he put an end to sacrifices" by His death.

    Zechariah pointed to a scenario - prior to the rejection of Christ by the Jews - whereby the Jews accepted their Messiah - That is a valid scenario pre-cross and pre-rejection of Christ. They had at that time "a choice" of futures.

    Moses gives them the same scenario at the end of his sermon in the book of Deuteronomy.

    However the many texts already shown about the desolated planet earth with "no man" - show clearly the state of the earth during the 1000 years - when as Rev 19 predicts the "rest of mankind" are killed by Christ at His appearing and the birds of all the earth feast on the corpses of the dead - where there is nobody left to bury them. The saints have been raised as Rev 20 points out - and as 1Thess 4 points out - taken back to heaven - "That where I am there you may be also" as Christ promised.

    When they return (as Rev 21 describes) the heavenly City comes down out of heaven - with the saints and Christ sets up His reign on earth - on David's throne - for the children of the promise.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Bob,

    Thanks for your post.

    'The orthodox Jews believe that Satan is a "good angel" and also adopt evolutionism instead of the Bible account.'

    Ray-I find this difficult to believe especially the 'good angel' view. Surely they don't think that the Devil is a good angel who produces at evil in our world. Just as there are Baptists who believe opposite things, there are probably orthodox Jewish people who ingest evolution.

    However - in Romans 11 the point is made clearly that they are cast out of
    the vine - and can only return if they "do not continue in unbelief". There is
    no "other way".

    Ray-I agree with your statement and explanation coming out of Romans eleven.

    Further - we are told in Hebrews 8 that the OT system of sacrifices ended. In
    fact in Heb 7 we are told that with the change of the priesthood came a
    change of the laws regarding sacrifices and role of priests - transferring it to
    the ONE priest - our High Priest - Jesus Christ - in the Heavenly temple.

    To argue for - earthly priests, earthly sacrifices After the death of Christ - is
    to seek to reject the High Priestly work of Christ (the great antitype) and
    return to the work of the system of "shadows" and "types" pointing forward
    to the sacrifice of Christ.

    Hebrews 10 states that "he put an end to sacrifices" by His death.

    Ray-I agree that there is no other way to Heaven and salvation other than through the precious blood of Jesus Christ. But, 'when the fulness of the Gentiles comes into the kingdom, God is again going to deal with the Jewish people and nation.' [Romans 11:25-26] The Lord is going to reinstate the Jewish people in the same way as with we Gentiles, only by faith in Christ and His atonement.

    You will see the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:7. Watch carefully!
    In verse eight, the next verse, God says that then will be done with these covenants, by using the words, 'For finding fault with them.' After His dealing with Gentiles in the church age, meaning now, He is going to introduce 'a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, meaning only the Jewish people. This will take place during the Millennial reign of Christ on the earth and for some Jews during the previous Great Tribulation. What makes this so glaringly, obvious is because clearly 99% of the Israelites presently do not believe in Jesus. But, during the 1,000 years of the Millennimum God says, in verse eleven that everyone will know the Lord God, that is among the Jewish people.

    Zechariah pointed to a scenario - prior to the rejection of Christ by the Jews
    - whereby the Jews accepted their Messiah - That is a valid scenario
    pre-cross and pre-rejection of Christ. They had at that time "a choice" of
    futures.

    Ray-I agree with you in the above paragraph.


    However the many texts already shown about the desolated planet earth
    with "no man" - show clearly the state of the earth during the 1000 years -
    when as Rev 19 predicts the "rest of mankind" are killed by Christ at His
    appearing and the birds of all the earth feast on the corpses of the dead -
    where there is nobody left to bury them. The saints have been raised as Rev
    20 points out - and as 1Thess 4 points out - taken back to heaven - "That
    where I am there you may be also" as Christ promised.

    Ray-the destruction of the earth as you referred to above will take place after the Millenimum, the thousand year reign of Christ on the earth as recorded in II Peter 3:10-12. That is why Jesus said in Revelation that the Great White Throne Judgment for sinners will be held not on earth or in Heaven, but a suspended place perhaps above where the earth was located. Notice, 'And I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.' Revelation 20:11 is not John's flare for poetic license; in other words, John was not merely carelessly expressing words. He meant what he said.

    When they return (as Rev 21 describes) the heavenly City comes down out
    of heaven - with the saints and Christ sets up His reign on earth - on David's
    throne - for the children of the promise.

    Ray-I agree there is a New Jerusalem that will come down out of Heaven for saved Jews and Gentiles. And then God will create/make His new Heaven and new Earth. [Revelation 21:1]

    Eternity will be our happy experience, thanks be to God.

    A brother in Christ,

    Ray
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Bob said - 'The orthodox Jews believe that Satan is a "good angel" and also adopt evolutionism instead of the Bible account.'


    Believe me - I hear you. I too found it hard to swallow. But I was not hearing this from a single Jewish believer giving his opinion. This came from an Orthodox Rabbi in Jerusalem as part of an internet network established by the Orthodox Jews to answer questions and explain their beliefs. (Usually it is Jews the place questions in that forum - but, once I found out about it - I posted my own questions).

    To add to your own reading enjoyment - go to this site and post in the section title "Ask the Rabbi" - http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1149. OHR is well known and well respected among Orthodox Jews.

    In any case - their argument is that he is here causing evil to "prod humanity on - to achieve and overcome obstacles".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Bob said --
    However - in Romans 11 the point is made clearly that they are cast out of
    the vine - and can only return if they "do not continue in unbelief". There is
    no "other way".


    Bob said --
    Further - we are told in Hebrews 8 that the OT system of sacrifices ended. In
    fact in Heb 7 we are told that with the change of the priesthood came a
    change of the laws regarding sacrifices and role of priests - transferring it to
    the ONE priest - our High Priest - Jesus Christ - in the Heavenly temple.

    To argue for - earthly priests, earthly sacrifices After the death of Christ - is
    to seek to reject the High Priestly work of Christ (the great antitype) and
    return to the work of the system of "shadows" and "types" pointing forward
    to the sacrifice of Christ.

    Hebrews 10 states that "he put an end to sacrifices" by His death.


    Actually Romans 11 makes it very clear that God is STILL reaching out to Jews from the moment of the writing of Romans 11 to this very day. There has been no "weakening" of His position - it is only thier continued "unbelief" that causes the rift - then in Romans 11, and still to this day.

    When Paul makes the point about "And in This way all Israel will be saved" he is speaking of the fact that "They are NOT all Israel that are children of the flesh". In order for "all Israel to come in" that part that is "not of the flesh" must be evangelized. Paul points out that the "natural branches" are those that are in EVEN BEFORE the push to evengelize "Israel that is NOT of the flesh". The "missing piece" is that part of Israel that is Not of the Flesh.

    Paul himself represents that part of Israel already "in the vine" both of the flesh AND of the Promise. That part that preceeded the massive influx of the Gentiles.

    Romans 11 is not a story about "The Gentile First AND THEN we will minister to the Jews". Rather the context is set in Romans 2 -"the Jew First AND THEN to the Gentiles". It is the bringing IN of the Gentiles that results in the saying in Romans 11 "And so in this way ALL Israel will be saved".

    Hebrews 8:
    13 When He said, "" A new covenant,'' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.


    He "has made" the first obsolete.

    In Romans 8 and 9 - Paul makes it clear - the New Covenant was already in full force. And the High Priestly ministry of Christ in heaven had already begun. With that "change in priesthood" there was even then "a change in law" regarding sacrifices and officiating priests. (as we see in Romans 7).

    Paul is not arguing "we are under the old Covenant and will continue to be under the old covenant until some future day when God will make a new Covenant with literal Israel of the flesh".

    Rather Paul argues that He already changed the law regarding priests (see Heb 7) and He already made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

    Notice that Paul argues that "We" are now under the New Covenant. The better Covenant. The one whereby sins are forgiven. In Heb 9-10 he points out that under the Old Covenant you had "animal blood" that "Can never take away sin" - but under the New Covenant we have the "blood of Christ".


    Bob said --
    Zechariah pointed to a scenario - prior to the rejection of Christ by the Jews
    - whereby the Jews accepted their Messiah - That is a valid scenario
    pre-cross and pre-rejection of Christ. They had at that time "a choice" of
    futures.



    Bob said --
    However the many texts already shown about the desolated planet earth
    with "no man" - show clearly the state of the earth during the 1000 years -
    when as Rev 19 predicts the "rest of mankind" are killed by Christ at His
    appearing and the birds of all the earth feast on the corpses of the dead -
    where there is nobody left to bury them. The saints have been raised as Rev
    20 points out - and as 1Thess 4 points out - taken back to heaven - "That
    where I am there you may be also" as Christ promised.


    In the texts I gave - we find the following -

    Corpses are strewn from one end of earth to the other with no one around to bury them.

    There is "no man" - ie. mankind is not there on the planet.

    Much of the land is "burning pitch".

    There is no light of the moon or the sun or the stars - rather a cloud covers the entire planet.

    Cities of the planet remain in ruin. Wild Animals roam the cities.

    The hills and mountains move across the surface of the earth - as if its surface is much more molten unstable than it is today.

    That is a good point.

    Lets look at the text.

    Still - you make a good point about Earth fleeing away.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
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