Peter walks on water

Stephen III,

You said, And for the umpteenth time, show this "Bible only" fallacy explicitly from
scripture...as it is supposedly "the only authority for faith and practice."

Ray is saying, that St. Paul defended the Gospel as duly noted in Philippians 1:7 & 17. Notice the apostle was not defending any on going ecclesiastical tradition from the Roman Catholic Church or the thoughts from the papal chair; in fact the Lord forbids that we receive offered quasi-spiritual treats. God speaking through the Apostle Paul has said, 'But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.' [Galatians 1:8] Paul is here defending God's truth and not any words from human prelates.

By your own admission or the notice of the Catholic Church, Peter was the first pope, so all of the add on religion that the Papal chair gave you is extraneous, because Almighty God says only to accept the truth that the Apostle Paul and the rest of the Apostolate had taught. God says that add on religion or philosophy is not to be consider or more importantly welcomed into our hearts and lives. We read nothing of the Assumption of Mary into Heaven or of things like Purgatory, and so on in all of the New Testament.

Please, show we waiting learners where in the Bible, even the Douay Version, where the coronation day was for the first bishop of your church. Such a great event would have surely been recorded in the Bible by the youngest apostle, the Apostle John. Maybe you can find it on a roll of parchment in one of those caves near the Dead Sea. We'll be waiting, listening and watching.

St. Augustine personally and possibly unwittingly manipulated the early church into accepting the non-canonical books of the Old Testament. Dr. Charles C. Ryrie a Ph.D. from the University of Edinburgh and professor emeritus at Dallas Theological Seminary says in his book, "Basic Theology" that:

'The church fathers accepted the thirty-nine books of the Old Testament. The only exception was Augustine (A.D. 400), who included the books of the Apocrypha (those "extra" books that some Bibles include between the books of the Old and New Testaments). However, he did acknowledge that they were not fully authoritative. The books of the Apocrypha were not officially recognized as part of the canon until the Council of Trent (A.D. 1546) and then only by the Roman Catholic Church.' P. 122.

The Roman Catholic Church was almost obligated, because he was their only really,great theologian, who toyed with the idea of the Apocryphal writings. We did not buy in on the offer because the concept of Purgatory is errant and the Judgment Seat of Christ is true. [II Cor. 5:10; I Cor. 3:13-15]

It was only 457 years ago that the Roman Catholic Church added on these Apocryphal books. It was a little late in the spiritual evaluation to bring in these spurious books, don't you think?

 

As the great King of Glory, it is entirely appropriate for Jesus to walk upon the raging seas and to calm it by His Word. This symbolizes His divine rulership over all mankind.

So what is He doing calling Peter out there with Him? Nothing less than establishing that there will be another who will rule over all mankind in His stead. St. Peter is the only one who stands with Christ on the raging waters, and I am sure that those left in the boats, upon reflection, must have realized in a shadow, something of the unique role which the Lord was giving to St. Peter through this act.

Notice also that only as long as Peter keeps the eyes of faith upon the Lord does he remain victorious over the waters. Once he removes his eyes and loses faith, he begins to sink into the waters. He becomes part of and one with the waters swirling around him. This is what has happened every time a pope has been elected who did not have the "eyes of faith". There have been a few instances of popes who were just like the world around them. In other words, they were swallowed up by the sea of humanity in which they lived, rather than walking victoriously above it. They became corrupt and evil, just like the world. Only the grace and promise of Christ kept them from doctrinally violating the Church (although I am sure the devil tried mightily to get his servants to do so whenever they rarely got into the papal office).

Peter rules because Christ has bid him to rule over the waters of humanity with Him and in His place. This is another reason from the Bible that I must believe in the papacy, even when it is administering the Church poorly. </font>[/QUOTE]Hogwash! Peter sought proof of who or what the image he saw walking on the water was, so he, Peter asked Lord, "if that is you bid me come to you". To which the Lord said, "come". (The Lord knew who He was, it was Peter once again doubted) Peter stepped out in faith, but while his faith may have been strong, his fear was stronger, and overcoming his faith Peter lost sight of his Savior momentarily and fell into the water that he was walking on. That is why Peter called out to the Lord to "save me".

That scene has nothing to do with papacy, but rather with faith without fear. You are reading entirely too much into the scripture.

None of the Isaiah passage is demonstrated in Peter's walking on the water. Neither does the Revelation passage have anything whatever to do with Peter, but rather with John the Revelator! Peter did not have the revelation, nor did the revelation passage address a "church" on the earth.

It is false teaching to make either of them fit into the scripture relative to Peter walking on the water.

 

My question here for non-Catholics is why wasn’t Peter’s faith in Jesus enough?

Why wasn’t Peter's “Lord, save me!” enough?

What did Peter doubt___that Jesus could save him, or that he could follow Jesus and do what Jesus was doing?

Is "Lord, save me!" alone enough? Is that all Jesus is wanting?


God Bless </font>[/QUOTE]Did not Jesus rebuke Peter and the other disciples often by saying to them, to wit, "Oh ye of little faith!"?

Didn't Jesus praise the Centurian by exclaiming "never have I seen such faith", and the woman with "issue", "Your faith has healed you"? Even your faith can heal you if your faith is strong enough for you to "step out on the waters"...without fear.
The woman with issue did not fear, but instead reached out and touched the Lord's Garment, something a woman in that society would not ordinarily do is touch the garment of a man, let alone a "great teacher" who was well respected and held in reverence. She thus made herself a magnet for His healing power because she had faith sufficient enough to act in the face of great personal "danger" because of commiting that act!

The point is, Peter had sufficient faith to act, but while in his faith, there remained fear of that which is common for man to fear. Who had seen one walk on water before Jesus? No one knew it was possible regardless of any amount of faith. All who had tried to walk on water found themselves up to their eyebrows in it! But now Jesus comes along strolling across the waves as if on smooth pavement and breaks the mold that says man cannot walk on water, and he bids the one bold enough to ask, to come out too! When he does, what a Marvelous miracle. If Peter had not come to fear the waves, the rest of the story might have been quite different. But alas, the scriptures record the rest for us and we know that Peter was nothing so special as to have a church built upon him. But his confession regarding Jesus is profound and is the foundation upon which all of our faith rests. Thank God for Peter.

 

Ray:

Do you know the Waldensians had bibles written in their own (pre-French) language which exist to this day, and includes the books taken out by the Protestants at the Reformation. When they decided to join to Protestants they reluctantly adopted the Protestant Bible.

Historians have found from their own wills and legal records they loved to quote the book Ecclesiasticus:

Ecclesiasticus 3:33
Water quencheth a flaming fire, and alms resisteth sins:

Ecclesiasticus 3:34
And God provideth for him that sheweth favour: he remembereth him afterwards, and in the time of his fall he shall find a sure stay.

(The Waldensian Dissent Persecution and Survival 1170-1570 by Dr. Gabriel Audisio; Cambridge University Press 1999.) </font>[/QUOTE]What spiritual truth is brought forth and established by the books of the apochrypha? Surely, if they exist, you can list them for us, giving specific reference to a verse or even a chapter or book.

If Purge-atory, then by all means provide the scripture that makes such an establishment of purgatory as a spiritual truth. If Infant Baptism, again there must be a place within the Apochrypha that establishes it as a spiritual truth, the rest of the bible does not.

 

Interesting thought Kathryn, however Jesus did not ask anyone who He is, and there was not real confession of who he is, but rather a realization that the one in their midst had just done a superhuman thing. Therefore He must be the Son of God. The scriptural principle of truth is "faith without fear" and not who or what Jesus is.

Jesus was preparing his disciples for the time when He would be fully revealed to them and that time when He finally discloses to them that His church will be based on the truth of Who and What Jesus is, and that whosoever believeth in him shall be saved into everlasting life, that is, born again members of His church, not the Roman church.

 

Kathryn,

I know you are a wonderful Christian woman, but this time you really are 'pushing the envelope.'

Here is my take--Jesus is in the mountain praying and knows there is a storm on Galilee so He moves quickly to the Sea of Galilee. The disciples were simple men and were superstitious about His appearance coming ever closer from a distance. Possibly because of the storm and the wind, His voice was carried away from them. Peter may not have heard with clarity His voice and words spoken to them. Peter, the forceful man that he was, said in effect, if you are the Lord let me come to you. Jesus responded to Peter and said, 'Come.' The sea was rough because of the wind and when Peter saw the surf and having known the approximate depth of the sea, at midpoint,in that part of Galilee, became afraid. Why did Peter begin to sink? It was because he took his eyes off the Lord. When we get to involved with our daily routine, we begin to fall away from His peace and Presence in our lives. But, notice, at the time of Peter's greatest need the Lord was by his side. And the Lord always says to us through His Providence, "O thou of little faith, where are your priorities, you know your real life is with Me."

The Bible says, 'And when they came into the ship, the wind ceased.' At least for me it is always safe when I am close to Him rather than on the sea of life, operating according to my will and good pleasure.

I'm sure there is much more that can come out of Matthew chapter fourteen, but this is what I see, at the moment. We all have to be careful not to superimpose our doctrines and taught, insights into a passage of Scripture when we study it.

 

I stated the answer before. Peter is the one who said to Jesus while Jesus was approaching the boat,

Peter asked for proof, "if it be thou..." which Jesus granted, Peter then preceeded toward Jesus, but having fear of the waves, he lost his focus on Jesus and sank into the water crying out "Lord Save me".

Faith without fear succeeds, Faith with fear loses.

What is it you do not understand?

 

Kathryn, Why do you ignore this,

Faith without fear succeeds, faith with fear loses.

If any of the others in the boat had stepped out as Peter did, would you still be ignoring the fear factor?

 

Kathryn said, 'No indication of this from the passage. Peter was completely ready and
willing to say, "Lord, save me!" In fact he said just that, and was then
rebuked for his doubt and for having so little faith.

Ray--I agree.

Kathryn said, 'Peter was with Jesus Christ on the sea. Peter wanted to be with Jesus
Christ. Jesus Christ wanted Peter to walk with Him and not doubt.

Ray says, 'I agree with the above statement.

Kathryn-- Your conclusion of staying in the boat where it is safe, misses the lesson.

Ray is saying, 'I did not miss the lesson. I only said inner peace comes by staying close to Jesus in our heart of hearts. It may be on the turbulent sea of life or in the quietness of His church, we can still be close to Him.

Kathryn--'Jesus wanted Peter to walk on the water with Him, or He wouldn't have said
"Come", and held out His hand. Jesus doesn't do what He doesn't want to
do. He does the will of the Father.'

Ray-I again agree with you.

Kathryn--You are assuming Peter "lost sight" of Jesus Christ. Holy Scripture tells us
quite the contrary. Peter was saying, "Lord, save me!" Jesus rebuked his doubt and lack of faith. Jesus didn't say, "Yes, that is right, I will save you, and let that be a lesson to you not to get out of the boat."

Ray-You took the wrong take on what I said, Kathryn. He had a lesson for Peter on the stormy sea and one in the quietness of the ship. All of the disciples came to Jesus in the ship and worshipped Christ. Why because He stopped the stormy sea. Peter only momentarily took his eyes off Jesus, when fear gripped his heart when looking downward.

Kathryn said, 'Jesus could have said, "No, stay in the boat and I will come to you always".

Ray-The Son of God, our Savior, can say and do as He wills.

Kathryn-said, 'Interesting take though and very different than Yelsew.

Ray-I was trying to give you a correct exegesis and application of what was going on between Peter and Jesus and the rest of the disciples. Yelsew, was emphasizing to you that your trying to link the idea of Peter's future ministry, as the alleged pope, was more than faulty plus it was fanciful. The purpose of the story was to get us to keep our eyes on the Lord or we will be less than pleasing to Him in our personal and daily lives.