which faith?

But Helen, isn't is still having faith in God to believe he cause Mary, or Joseph Smith, or Moses, to hear my prayers and pass them on to him?

Not doing anything to earn God's grace is a given, but shouldn't we have to do something to continue being worthy of his grace? It's a one time sacrifice for our sins before salvation, but we have to work to keep ourselves clean and righteous and forgiven for the sins we commit after we are forgiven for what we did as unbelievers, don't we?

 

What faith did Abraham have that was counted unto him for Righteousness? FAITH IN GOD! Abraham did not know of Jesus, at least we are not given any evidence that he did.

What faith did Noah have? FAITH in GOD!

What faith did David have? FAITH IN GOD!

What faith did Daniel and Joseph have? FAITH in GOD.

The Faith of the Prophets was IN GOD, even though what God told them to say to the people included prophesy of a coming Son of God, they themselves did not know the Son of God as a distinct "separate" person of Deity.

For Christians, There is but one object of FAITH, God the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT, the 3-in-1, the Triune Godhead, the Trinity.

 

If the Arminian view is selected - then we observe that Adam was born "Adam the son of God" (according to the Gospels) - perfect and in full family relationship to his creator -- and yet by not continuing in that relationship - he fell.

In the same way all the "perseverance texts" of scripture point to our need to remain in Christ - and argue a kind of motivation for us to continue to make that choice.

The case of praying to the dead is not a problem of works - it is a problem of casting aside the Word of God as a requirement for "proving" all doctrine.

We pray for others knowing that God will hear and answer our prayers for them. This is not a problem of "works".

Praying to the dead simply violated the Isaiah 8:19-20 rule not to communicate with the Dead. If we put our trust in the Word of God - we won't pray to the dead - no matter how highly we think of dead people.

In Christ,

Bob

 

In John 8 Christ said "Abraham saw my day and was glad".

In Gal 3:7-8 we are told "the gospel was for this reason preached before hand to Abraham".

Peter tells us that the saints of old were informed "of the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to FOLLOW".

There is no question that the OT saints had less information than we have in some areas - but I would not consign them entirely to the dark when it comes to the ONE Gospel Gal 1:6 that was "Preached to US JUST as it was to them" Heb 4:1-2.

I choose - one faith - one gospel - one "good news" for fallen mankind. The Messiah is the Christ.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The Gospel of the Old Testament was FAITH IN GOD.
The Gospel of the New Testament is FAITH IN GOD.

The Messiah made everlasting life (salvations) possible for mankind on the basis of FAITH ALONE, because the Messiah took away the penalty for sin from all mankind.

 

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3;22

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:16

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:22

It is the Faith of Christ that saves not our faith.

 

If we accept the Calvinist view of total depravity (a doctrine that I also accept) then in fact - the Gospel is the "only way" that the Hebrews 11 list of saints "could" have existed in the OT or in the NT.

Only the New Birth "could" result in what we see in Heb 11.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Sorry I do not get it, by Faith alone I am saved and I do not have to do or say anything else. I am sure this is not what is meant in some of the responses, but that is how it reads to this one.

So if I truely believe, I can monster my neighbours, slaughter the unrighteous (in my eyes) and still be saved. Surely not.....

Another thing what is water baptism?

 

Of course he is, because both titles mean the same thing! (Messiah is Hebrew and Christ is Greek, both meaning "anointed one.")

In Christ,
Neal

 

This topic is bordering on "once saved, always saved". This can't be true. I can't give my life to Christ, then kill my neighbor, and then get to heaven without asking for forgiveness. God knows beforehand if we are going to be with Him or not after we die. It's simply a formality of us doing (or NOT doing) that which He is already aware of.

But, Helen, you seem to be stating that doing Christian things is useless because we are saved by grace. I'm not sure God agrees with this statement. We are called to live like Him as much as possible, not just ask for Him to be our Saviour and then go our seperate ways.

 

Three thumbs up , brother.

 

Hello, Briony-G.

No, if you truly believe, you cannot monster your neighbors because the Word says "live peaceably with one another.....be subject unto the higher powers (the laws of the land)....love thy neighbors as thyself;

You cannot slaughter the unrighteous because your own righteousness is not yours but only imputed to you....every child of God has no inherent righteousness, only imputed righteousness....

 

But, it can happen. What does the Bible say about Elijah, one of the mightiest prophets ever to be used by God ? He was a man of like passions as we are.... (James 5:17);

Samson lived his life in self-centeredness even up to the end of his life. See if you can find a prayer of repentance even when he prayed that he get back his strength. He said:

And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.

This is a mine, me, my, kind of prayer,(and a lot of us pray this way), notwithstanding the fact that he is in that predicament because of his own doing.

Helen is saying that a true child of God can sin, and not sleep comfortably at night, and this is true also of a true child of God who kills someone in the heat of passion, or even deliberately, like David did when he murdered Uriah. The child of God will have his sin "ever before him", he may not confess it (in which case he feels a cancer eating away at him, like David did), but he cannot escape his sin (Numbers 32:23) and its consequences here on earth .

But as for the sin itself, if he is one of God's own, it has been covered at Calvary.

 

Actually 'charis'(sp?) translated 'grace' is used in Luke several times referring to Y'shua. So it can't always mean "unmerited favor" but rather "favor".

Cotton

 

The bottom line is that if you trylu love God then you will do your best to not sin at all. If you do you will ask for forgiveness. If you are truly in love with Christ you will do Christian works. If you aren't, then you won't. And that brings us to Scripture about professing with the lips, but nott the heart, and the whole walking away from the mirror and forgetting your face stuff. Works is a display of your love and passion for God and His commandments. Lack of works is pure laziness, which is one of the deadly sins. It's not even a matter of 'unmerited grace', yet, because that only applies to those who truly love Him. And so the circle starts over.

 

Miss Helen

Or one could say;

Sheep follow the Shepherd because they know his voice.
They follow in obedience.
They follow out of love.
They stay close to Him for protection.
To be fed, or led to greener pastures.
To be watered.

Well, aren't you making the assumption that because people do things, they're automatically trying to earn salvation? I mean people can tithe or be missionaries because they love the Lord! I'm not saying that all the things you listed above that people do are anywhere near correct theologically, but it appears to be a particular Baptist notion that anything any believer does has an ulterior (sp?) motive to try to gain entrance into Heaven.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement.

Cotton.