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'Modern' Apostels & Prophets

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by SpiritualMadMan, Jun 16, 2004.

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  1. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Bob,

    "Food For Thought" :D

    Atestring...,

    But, the "Baptists" *are* in unity...

    And, the church *is* Perfect...

    Aren't they? :D

    Seriously, though, if you've followed some of my posts, one has to admit that 'we' Charismatics and Pentecostals have pretty well failed to conduct ourselves in a way that shows forth the "Order" and "Decency" mixed with Agape Love that is God's trademark...

    As such 'we' provide more than ample stumbling stones to any who would be open to "present day gifts".
     
    #61 SpiritualMadMan, Jul 17, 2004
  2. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    Madman, I have been in many Pentecostal and charismatic churches and the typical service is done decently and in order. this is normal practice.
    I heard one Charismatic Pastor say " If it is important that something be done decently and in order then it is important that it be done."
     
    #62 atestring, Jul 17, 2004
  3. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    ate...
    :D

    Yeah I know that is the way many conduct themselves...

    But, it always seems 'we' "show out" when we have guests...
     
    #63 SpiritualMadMan, Jul 19, 2004
  4. rockyman

    rockyman New Member

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    So it sounds like what SpiritualMadMan is saying is that he feels there are Apostles in the Pentecostal churches, but that there is much abuse there. Are we saying "wolves in sheep's clothing" or did I also read into his statement that there is legitimate as well.

    If so, how can one tell who is an apostle or not?
     
    #64 rockyman, Jul 26, 2004
  5. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Rockyman...

    I have very mixed feelings about the issue of whether True Apostles are in our Pentecostal midsts or not...

    The big issue is the abuse, haughtiness, and pride I see.

    The other issue is, for me as a Pentecostal, is where the dividing line would be between a 'merely' Spirit-Filled individual and a Modern Day Apostle...

    With any given member of the church being able to operate in the Gifts of the Spirit, (I speak as a Pentecostal), who's to say those that we 'call' Apostles aren't just 'Gifted'...

    How do we tell if a person is a true Modern Day Apostle?

    Well, IMHO,
    They would do the works of an Apostle...
    Miracles, Evangelism, Correction, Setting in Order...

    They would give glory to God and seek to keep as low a profile as their gifting would allow...

    They would live humble and simple lives...

    They would be humble not arrogant and would not seek to 'Lord it Over' God's Flock...

    What I see instead is a lot of 'stroking' instead of correction and setting in order...

    What I see is a few questionable miracles instead many indisputable (and provable) ones.

    What I see are extravagant lifestyles... Glory seeking... Position mongering... Better than the laity attitudes...

    If God has a need and use for Modern Day Apostles it is to set His Church in order not to gather a following...

    Question. With the current 'Big Top' mentality the American church has could we keep an Apostle once we got him? I mean wouldn't we tend to ruin such a gifted one rather quickly?

    We elevate men above their ability to keep their heads then we complain because they aren't spirtual enough...

    And, in doing so we negate any effort by the so-called lay-person to seek to minister one to another in any way...

    I would love to be able to lay hands on the sick and see them recover... But, I sure don't want to be the only one in the group that does so... I am not sure I could keep my head or poise under such visibility...
     
    #65 SpiritualMadMan, Jul 26, 2004
  6. rockyman

    rockyman New Member

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    I see your concerns as primarily what happens to a person with such gifts, that it would go to their head. Well, maybe not. That might happen to us, but others, well Jesus Christ Himself had the ultimate gifts of every kind, and did all manner of miracles, and even died for our sins, and do you think he had any problem with arrogance or pride? Well, of course not, but He is God, so I guess that makes it a little different. Still, its what's possible here. There are men like Peter, Paul, John, etc., who became powerful in their ministries, and yet did not suffer from pride and arrogance, but considered themselves the servants of all, as Jesus taught them well. He who will be the greatest among you, let him be the servant of all, He said.

    The dictionary has an interesting definition of what an Apostle is:

    a·pos·tle
    One of a group made up especially of the 12 disciples chosen by Jesus to preach the gospel.
    A missionary of the early Christian Church.
    A leader of the first Christian mission to a country or region.
    One of the 12 members of the administrative council in the Mormon Church.
    One who pioneers an important reform movement, cause, or belief: an apostle of conservation.
    A passionate adherent; a strong supporter.
    ----------------------

    So we see it can be a number of things, depending on one's viewpoint, but I tend to think of these men as being special witnesses of Jesus Christ, and who oversee missionary work for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, which was the job of say, Peter, Paul, John, etc., true apostles of Jesus Christ. They were martyrs for the cause of Christ, and it showed where their love and loyalty was. They cared more for the flock than they did their own lives. They did what the Second Comforter instructed them to do, the Holy Ghost. They were also personal friends of and witnesses of Jesus Christ, as they ALL saw Him and witnessed of that.
     
    #66 rockyman, Jul 26, 2004
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