What if the athiests are wrong & there REALLY is God?

I don't think that that is a very good question, because every atheist who was once a theist has considered that question a thousand times.

 

Then we will burn in Hell. Call me slow, but I fail to see any substantive point being made here.

 

Ohhh, never heard that one before....

 

Ain't it just wonderful that you check into this site and read all these fantastic things you never heard before?

 

And what if, after you yelled your loudest and screamed your worst epithet, God (feel free to picture God as a woman or a man at this point) wrapped you in a great big hug and cried because of how much you were loved - just the way you are?

Joshua

 

And what if, after you yelled your loudest and screamed your worst epithet, God (feel free to picture God as a woman or a man at this point) wrapped you in a great big hug and cried because of how much you were loved - just the way you are?

Joshua</font>[/QUOTE]I'd love so much for that to be true. If I had been raised with that idea of God, I would have remained a believer. THAT kind of God would have made sense to me. For better or worse though, the God I was presented with makes no sense to me, and is no God I can worship without lying to myself.

[ March 22, 2002, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Melly ]

 

With what idea of God where you raised? Have you explored the gospels for yourself?

jason

 

I would like to see your rebuttal for pascal's wager either way. Is your rebuttal the same obtuse rebuttal given at II?

jason

 

First of all, after your dead, it's too late.

Second of all, Anne Frank IS in hell-so get mad about it now.

Third of all, When you were little, didn't you mom and dad punish you when you were bad? And didn't that show you how much care about you? We are happy to worship the Lord a)because he is our heavenly Father so out of our love for him, and b)because we are grateful for the sacrifice of his Son who took the punishment for sin on the cross.

 

Our parents punished us to help us learn right from wrong. They were trying to help us learn to be good people. Their punishment focused on helping us prepare for the future. THAT is loving punishment. God's punishment isn't to help us grow and become better. It's not to teach us right from wrong. According to you, it's eternal, inescapable damnation and torture. It's not comparable to a parent punishing a child. If a parent got mad at a child for disobeying and threw them into the fireplace, and figured out some way to make the child burn forever instead of just dying, THAT would be comarable to your God.

 

Our parents punished us to help us learn right from wrong. They were trying to help us learn to be good people. Their punishment focused on helping us prepare for the future. THAT is loving punishment. God's punishment isn't to help us grow and become better. It's not to teach us right from wrong. According to you, it's eternal, inescapable damnation and torture. It's not comparable to a parent punishing a child. If a parent got mad at a child for disobeying and threw them into the fireplace, and figured out some way to make the child burn forever instead of just dying, THAT would be comarable to your God.</font>[/QUOTE]First of all let me say that I noticed that you tool one part and forgot to take the resst-the Good news-a)because he is our heavenly Father so out of our love for him, and b)because we are grateful for the sacrifice of his Son who took the punishment for sin on the cross.

The original qustion was:The fact is, hell and a good god do not go together. If God is not good, then how can people possibly worship him except out of self interest?

God is a good God and a good Father because he threatens our misbehavior(sin) with punishment just like your parents were good parents for disciplining you when you were bad... and it made you feel good too! Because that's how you knew they loved you.-I have this experience with my daughter all the time. It makes her feel loved and cared for when I care enough to correct her and don't let her do what ever she wants.

 

I have to know, why is this the case? If God is merciful, why does this mercy apply only to those who have not died yet? It is unthinkable to a Christian that God would withhold forgiveness from people for being a Gentile, a woman, or a paraplegic. So why won't God forgive a person who is in hell? Apparently God's forgiveness is not only conditional, but the condition is rather arbitrary.</font>[/QUOTE]I can direct you to the story of Lazarus and the rich man...

Luke 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[3] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;God is a good God and a good Father because he threatens our misbehavior(sin)
with punishment just like your parents were good parents for disciplining you
when you were bad... and it made you feel good too! Because that's how you
knew they loved you.-I have this experience with my daughter all the time. It
makes her feel loved and cared for when I care enough to correct her and don't let
her do what ever she wants.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Do you threaten your daughter with burning her with a hot fire if she disobeys you? If you did,
and made the threat credible, don't you think the authorities would take your daughter away from you?

 

No, radiochemist-that's just silly! But our heavenly Father sent his Son to earth to take the punisjment for our sim. Now we have a choice. We can either believe in him and have the privlage of going to heaven or we can deny his salvation and go to hell. Similarily, my daughter has a choice on Sundays when we go to church. She can either behave and have the privlage of going out after school to play with her friends for the upcoming wee, or she can be bad and lose that privlage.

[ March 23, 2002, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: tulpje ]

 

First of all, after your dead, it's too late.

Second of all, Anne Frank IS in hell-so get mad about it now.

Third of all, When you were little, didn't you mom and dad punish you when you were bad? And didn't that show you how much care about you? We are happy to worship the Lord a)because he is our heavenly Father so out of our love for him, and b)because we are grateful for the sacrifice of his Son who took the punishment for sin on the cross.</font>[/QUOTE]Why in God's name would Anne Frank be in Hell tulpje? Have you been there on vacation or something and you ran into her? What an ignorant statement to make!

 

From Tulpje:

From WishToLearn:

I too thought that was the position of most Conservative Protestants -- that Anne Frank was in Hell. I'm not a Christian and tulpje and WishtoLearn are (perhaps?) not Baptist, but I did think this was commonly believed by many, if not most, conservative Protestants. So, correct me if I'm wrong about that. What DO Baptists generally believe on the Anne Frank question?

 

First of all, after your dead, it's too late.

Second of all, Anne Frank IS in hell-so get mad about it now.

Third of all, When you were little, didn't you mom and dad punish you when you were bad? And didn't that show you how much care about you? We are happy to worship the Lord a)because he is our heavenly Father so out of our love for him, and b)because we are grateful for the sacrifice of his Son who took the punishment for sin on the cross.</font>[/QUOTE]Why in God's name would Anne Frank be in Hell tulpje? Have you been there on vacation or something and you ran into her? What an ignorant statement to make! </font>[/QUOTE]Jews aren't going to heaven. I know that we all have have jewish freinds that we love, but the sad truth of the matter is that the only way to heaven is through Christ

First consider this verse:

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now consider the parable of the wedding banquet:
The Parable of the Wedding Banquet

1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5"But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business. 6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
13"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

See.. the jews were the original guests... they declined they no longer deserve to come so now everyone is invited, but very few make it into heaven because of sin... this is a great parable

 

David Gould,

What if God said as Rev Joshua said And what if, after you yelled your loudest and screamed your worst epithet, God (feel free to picture God as a woman or a man at this point) wrapped you in a great big hug and cried because of how much you were loved - just the way you are?

Then God said this to you... Isaiah 28:18 And your COVENANT WITH DEATH shall be DISSANULLED (made void- CANCELLED), and your agreement with HELL SHALL NOT STAND;

Then Believers started walking in love as we were told to. How would that sound?

The last one is the hardest to achieve. The first is true as beautifully put by Joshua the second is the word of God which Christ came to fulfill and the third is getting it through His people what He has already done.

In Him Kim