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Why Expose the Errors of Catholicism?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by BobRyan, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1Pet 3:
    21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good consciencethrough the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


    Peter directs us away from thinking of the "magic sacramental waters of baptism" and instead
    states explicitly that INSTEAD of a "magic sacrament" the REAL saving aspect is in the heart's knowing - deliberate - active "APPEAL to God for a good conscience". THAT is the sense in which baptism saves for it is a public symbol that the sinner has already made that appeal.

    Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

    Saved - Salvation to those who BELIEVE. The fact that one who BELIEVES and is saved will CONTINUE to read and study and obey - does not abolish the fact of salvation
    JUST as stated above - at the time we believe.

     
  2. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann Member

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    Carson:

    The reason I asked all of those "basic" questions was because I wanted to hear YOUR answers.

    Frankly, in 11 years of CCD, I never heard baptism explained quite the way you explain it, but that was the 1960's and 1970's.

    Priscilla Ann
     
  3. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

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    Hi Priscilla Ann,

    Since the 1960's, catechesis has been in an upheavel, especially in the United States due to a number of reasons, of which I will not explicate here. In the 60's and 70's, I'm surprised that faithful, believing, catechized Catholics were actually still extant in the United States! ;)

    Essentially, Dr. Hahn is facilitating a revival in Catholic catechetics by returning to the Bible, which is the soul of theology according to the history of the Church, esp. the Second Vatican Council (Cf. Dei Verbum). First century Jews thought through a framework woven around a covenant worldview, and if you expect to read the Bible as it was meant to be read, you must be schooled in the covenant - esp. in the Old Testament, which is a continuous narration of salvation history, built upon and driven by covenants.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding that the RCC has been around since before the 60's.

    Arguing that Catholics in the US should have dissappeared in the 60's is not "compelling".

    The point that "new ideas" have surfaced for how to prop up RC doctrines - is not the same as actually showing historic RCC teaching on those doctrines.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The RCC declares that the doctrine (or error) of Baptism as taught today by the RCC has "evolved over time".

    From Catholic Digest (Parenthesis mine in the quotes below) from the June 1999 article.
    Please see www.catholicdigest.org for the full article that hints to the changes that have evolved over time.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Other Catholic historians admit to the same kind of evolution over time...

    These Catholic sources - should not be "ignored" simply because they point out facts that are not pleasing to RC apologists.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    However I do find it amazing that Catholic take these statements from Catholic sources about what the RCC "borrowed from paganism" and accept it without comment.

    Makes you wonder what else they accept from their catholic sources "without comment".

    Would OTHER Christians be so blind to their own denomination?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The real truth is that non-Catholics, including myself, will be more than happy to expose the errors of everyone but their own denominations. It's a rather old story: believing that there is no long in our own eyes. We do this because it's easier to see at the misgivings of others than the misgivings of ourselves. People do this all the time in all aspects of life. It makes them feel better about themselves. Why do we think it would be different among the religion aspect? </font>[/QUOTE]While it is true that each group prefers to turn a blind-eye to its own faults - and the RCC members here have certainly shown that they are no exception --- the question posed here is simply - "Is there more to it than SIMPLY finding some fault with the Catholic Church"?

    Is there enough objectivity left to admit to - and objectively evaluate the "reasons" for pointing out the association between RCC actions in history - and Bible predictions.

    Even in the "turn a blind-eye to everything" model - there must be some objectivity left.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In exposing the errors of Catholicism - the exercise is not simply to grasp at straw after straw seeking for one "rock" that will do the trick.


    Rather it is the clear fact that the errors and atrocities committed in the dark ages were actually predicted in the Word of God.

    God cared about the church and about the saints enough to warn them of what was coming.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Suppose you could go back in time - to the dark ages as many thousands of Catholics in opposing Papal armies were preparing to slaughter each other over the subject of "whose pope was the right pope".

    Suppose you could "disabuse" them of their catholic errors and thereby save their lives.

    How wonderful to have that chance. And yet - are there not still Catholics today that think that by demonizing the victims of the dark ages - they do the RCC a "service"?

    Come out of darkness. Step into the light of the Gospel.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Dr. Grady said in his book, "Final Authority," 'While Alexandria pioneered the allegorical or figurative style, Antioch maintained the strict literalist mode of orthodoxy which would naturally demand a greater regard for precise word-for-word copying.'

    The school at Antioch provided the hermeneutics for Protestantism, while Catholicism in some passages especially in Revelation, water down the true meaning of end times events.

    Catholics like to elevate Origen as a great Catholic. Did you know that he believed in the preexistence of the human soul (i.e., John the Baptist was previously an angel), Dr. Menzies, "Ante-Nicene Fathers, 10:383.

    He believed that Christ's death was paid as a ransome to Satan. Dr. Earle E. Cairns, "Christianity Through the Centuries" Zondervan Publishing House, p. 328.

    He denied both the coming "bodily resurrection" and the Millennial Kingdom. Dr. Fisher, "Christian Doctrine." p.112. Now you well understand why Catholicism today still believes we are in the Kingdom Age and denies Christ's future Millenimum of 1,000 years.

    Philo, Origen and others from Alexandria were taught to chance the actual meaning of Scripture, by turning the Word into a poetic, allegory. There error was not in the occasional and ancillary use of this enriching Scriptural method {Galatians 4:24}, but rather in their abusive exclusion of the literal method of interpretation of Scripture. To see the beautiful typology in Genesis is fine, but denying the true and historic fact of the Genesis account is terrible.

    Genesis chapter nineteen is clearly an historical event of how the Lord views homosexuality. These men were not trying to enter a 'gay bar' but surrounded Lot's house. There were big problems for them because two angels of God were inside and with their power struck the sexual deviants with blindness. Genesis is for real!

    When teachers allegorize the Scripture they are taking away the potent value of what Jesus is saying to us.
     
  12. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    I apologize for placing this post here; it was prepared for the topic: "The Roots of Catholicism."
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Well - it does highlight a possible reason (the Gospel) as to WHY one might want to expose the errors of Catholicism BESIDES just the yada-yada-something-bad-about-catholic rant that our RC bretheren have "hoped" would stand as "the reason".

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
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