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the Oxford KJV "errors"?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Logos1560, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    We are discussing supposed errors in the KJV Oxford. Please limit your discussions to that and that alone, and not a group of posters. Further off topic comments will be deleted.
     
  2. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I just checked a Cambridge KJV edition printed in 1865 and found that it has "sins" (2 Chron. 33:19), "whom he" (Jer. 34:16), and "fleeth" (Nah. 3:16) [all three of the so-called "Oxford errors"].

    [inflammatory comments snipped]

    [ December 31, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  3. kiwimac

    kiwimac New Member

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    The KJV was a pretty good translation for its time and with the limited Greek & Hebraic sources available to the translators. I opine that had they had the resources available to them that we have available to us the KJV would look QUITE different.

    Kiwimac
     
  4. jshurley04

    jshurley04 New Member

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    Please forgive this very uneducated comment, but in reading these verses within the context of the verse. I fail to understand how the way they have been rendered would be considered an error. If it is the fact that sentece structure in the English language makes them an error then there are a few more places where that is the case. Other than that, without doing indepth research into the manuscripts that it was translated from, how does this make a significant difference in the understanding of scripture?

    I am not a KJVOist but at the same time, I don't believe that the KJV should be pounded on just because of (what seems to be on the surface) minor sentence structure. It is not enough to change meanings in my mind. Just as the newer translations change some of the word useage and structure and it does not provide any change to the meaning of the scripture.
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What textforms do we have available that were not available to the KJV translators?
     
  6. Boanerges

    Boanerges New Member

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    What textforms do we have available that were not available to the KJV translators? </font>[/QUOTE]There you go again Doc C. Asking those hard questions. :eek: Are you going to let facts get in the way again? [​IMG]
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    What textforms do we have available that were not available to the KJV translators? </font>[/QUOTE]Great question - surely there is a simple answer.
     
  8. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The KJV translation used the Stephanus Greek text of 1550, a largely Byzantine document.
    The centuries earlier Vulgate translation was influenced by Alexandrian and Western text documents.

    In the early 1600's the science of textual criticism was still in its long infancy;
    these various textform types were not classified and weighted until much later.

    The spirit of his post was to say that we have increased our scholarship since the 15th century and this influences our abilities to translate texts.

    These were the best scholars of their time.
    Given the thousand-fold increase in available documents and the truly awesome job the translators of the KJV did with the limited texts available at their time, who could disagree?

    And IMO, the truly big discoveries have been in the Hebrew text.

    Rob
     
  9. Boanerges

    Boanerges New Member

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    Not sure that there were any big discoveries in the Hebrew text. Most all of the Hebrew texts read the same. The DSS had some interesting proto Masoretic stuff, but it didn't change our translation any IMO.
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Well, not exactly. The KJV is a revision of the Bishops' Bible which was a revision of the Tyndale Bible which was based on the 1522 edition of Erasmus's Greek text. When the translators referred back to a Greek text they sometimes referred to the 1550 edition of Stephanus, but also relied on the 1598 edition of Beza. But their text contains several departures from those Greek texts.
    The Vulgate in use at that time was the Clementine Vulgate of 1592 which was a revision of the Sistine Vulgate which Pope Clement VIII repudiated upon his ascension to the Holy See in January, 1592. The Vulgate is obviously based on the Western Textform.
    Beside the point. The question was "What textforms do we have available that were not available to the KJV translators?" (Hint: The correct answer is "none.")
    Actually the "spirit" of his post was that they had "limited Greek & Hebraic sources available." [​IMG]
    And, with that "thousand fold increase in available documents" (which I suspect is wild hyperbole) what new textform is now available that was not available to the KJV translators?
    And what "truly big discoveries" have been made in the Hebrew Text?
     
  11. Boanerges

    Boanerges New Member

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    I just wanted to say thanks to Dr C for being a centerline between a widely swinging textual pendulum. I will work on getting you that show on TBN now. :cool:
     
  12. JWI

    JWI New Member

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    Did it ever occur to anyone that an error can not be identified unless the correct translation is known?

    I haven't posted here in a long time. One reason is the disbelief I see here.

    God promised to preserve his word. I will not show all the verses, they have been seen many times. God has either kept his word or not. God is either telling the truth or lying.

    I believe God told the truth and that there is a correct version of his word in the world. I believe it is the KJV. You obviously disagree.

    Fine. Then which version is the correct version?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes.
    Personal attack is the last refuge of the incompetent.
    He did. God preserved His word. I know. I have it.
    God always tells the truth. Unlike a lot of people.
    So do I.
    You are obviously wrong. I believe the KJV is the word of God in English. I am just not dumb, or arrogant, enough to tell God that the KJV is the ONLY version in English He is allowed to bless. [​IMG]
    I know of several in English. KJV. NKJV. LITV. TMB. KJ2000. KJII. Etc.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    This thread is supposed to be a discussion of the Oxford edition and supposed errors contained therein. It is not a disussion of the KJV vs all others.

    Let us return to topic.
     
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I don't recall that anyone has asked which was the third claimed error according to Waite in the Oxford edition, but I will post it to complete his three examples.

    The third “error” according to Waite is found at Nahum 3:16. At this verse, the present Oxford KJV has "fleeth" while the present Cambridge KJV has "flieth." The 1795 Oxford KJV edition has “flieth” at this verse. Waite contended that “’flieth’ is the correct translation” (Foes, p. 66). The 1817 Cambridge Stereotype Edition and 1865 Cambridge edition have “fleeth” at Nahum 3:16. Waite maintained “that the Cambridge edition of the King James Bible is more accurate than the Oxford edition” (p. 65). When was the Cambridge edition made more accurate than the Oxford edition?
     
  16. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    An edition of the KJV printed at Cambridge by John Archdeacon in 1790 has all three of the so-called "Oxford errors."

    This 1790 Cambridge has "sins" at 2 Chronicles 33:19, "whom he" at Jeremiah 34:16, and "fleeth" at Nahum 3:16.
     
  17. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Misprints in need of editing are quite the less "errors" as those misleading interpretations that make up the majority of newer versions.

    That is what Waite is pointing out, "errors in printing" not erros in the Bible.

    Then the whole mess is begun again by those who slide and wobble on anything "new" to chew on.

    The older understanding is best. Modernism demands the reasonig capabilities be brought down to within modern reason of men, that is exactly why the Alexandrian MSS are so widely accepted, these days, these last days, when evil men a seducers shall wax worse and worse.

    I know to stay with what is proven reliable and never contradictory except to those who insist on being a contradiction themsleves.

    These "BIG errors"? Laugh!
     
  18. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I have a Cambridge (I don't know what edition) that has a misprint in Matthew 23:24 which says, "Strain at" instead of "strain out". Is that misprinted in other editions?
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Hope of Glory, I can't help but think you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. [​IMG]
     
  20. PeterAV

    PeterAV New Member

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    [/b]He did. God preserved His word. I know. I have it.
    God always tells the truth. Unlike a lot of people.
    So do I.
    You are obviously wrong. I believe the KJV is the word of God in English. I am just not dumb, or arrogant, enough to tell God that the KJV is the ONLY version in English He is allowed to bless. [​IMG]
    I know of several in English. KJV. NKJV. LITV. TMB. KJ2000. KJII. Etc. [/QB][/QUOTE]
    *******
    NKJV is not correct.
    TMB is not correct.
    KJ2000 is not correct.
    KJII is not correct.
    All other modern versions are not correct.
    All of them have errors.

    Only one stands alone as the final authority as opposed to the preferences of fallible men playing the game of pick and choose.

    The Holy Bible:now known as the AV or the King James Bible.

    PeterAV
    Holy Bible
    There is only one.
     
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