How much of the Bible is necessary?

Does the truth hurt?

http://www.williamtyndale.com/0reformersburned.htm

http://www.williamtyndale.com/0biblehistory.htm

http://www.tyndale.org/

http://www.bible-researcher.com/tyndale4.html

 

When all else fails utilize ad hominum attacks.

 

Your kidding me right?

"you papists do nothing but make feeble "

 

Your kidding me right?

"you papists do nothing but make feeble " </font>[/QUOTE]Why should he be kidding?

posted January 29, 2004 05:34 PM
Originally posted by thessalonian:
It is an axiom of Protestantism, even though the Bible never says this, that "everything that is neccessary for our salvation is contained in the Bible.

DHK responded
No, reading the Bible is not necessary to our salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
The preaching of the cross is necessary to salvation.

No direct response from Thessalonian

posted January 30, 2004 05:39 PM
Originally posted by thessalonian:
Your post is piontless. You still have not answered my question. profitable = neccessary?
Thanks for stopping by.
blessings

DHK responded:
I answered your question: definitively, and clearly. Why haven't you accepted it?
DHK

posted January 30, 2004 05:52 PM
Posted by Thessalonian:
Perhaps you believe you are the center of the universe. Then again, perhaps I wasn't responding to you.
Blessings

Thessalonian’s response to a historical account of Tyndale’s labor’s on his translation of the Bible.
DHK, I'm not going to waste my time with your biggoted nonsense.

Who is the one who uses as hominen attacks??
DHK

 

thessalonian - basically yes the entire WOG is contained either directly or by principle inferrable within the Bible which is the WOG

I refer to DHK's post just above in reference

the oral traditions of God referred to in your post necessary to salvation are contained within the Bible

Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life no man cometh unto the Father but by me

If we can say that there exists extra-Biblical Words of God that lead to salvation - then these Words would have a power so immense - so effectual that people in possession of these Words could do miracles on the order of the apostolic era

after all the very spoken Word of God created everything, and when spoken in faith - can move mountains.

I deny these extra-Biblical words exist until God Himself decides to tell me otherwise - Ill think Ill insist on Thomas' conditions anyways

The Bible is not just written words it is God manifest - It is Jesus with us - It is the Father with us - It is the Spirit with us!!!

 

Your kidding me right?

"you papists do nothing but make feeble " </font>[/QUOTE]Why should he be kidding?

posted January 29, 2004 05:34 PM
Originally posted by thessalonian:
It is an axiom of Protestantism, even though the Bible never says this, that "everything that is neccessary for our salvation is contained in the Bible.

DHK responded
No, reading the Bible is not necessary to our salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
The preaching of the cross is necessary to salvation.

No direct response from Thessalonian

posted January 30, 2004 05:39 PM
Originally posted by thessalonian:
Your post is piontless. You still have not answered my question. profitable = neccessary?
Thanks for stopping by.
blessings

DHK responded:
I answered your question: definitively, and clearly. Why haven't you accepted it?
DHK

posted January 30, 2004 05:52 PM
Posted by Thessalonian:
Perhaps you believe you are the center of the universe. Then again, perhaps I wasn't responding to you.
Blessings

Thessalonian’s response to a historical account of Tyndale’s labor’s on his translation of the Bible.
DHK, I'm not going to waste my time with your biggoted nonsense.

Who is the one who uses as hominen attacks??
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I simply choose not to cast pearls per the advice of my Lord and Savior. I have gone round in circles with you plenty of times to know that is all I am doing.
. Hope that doesn't bother you too much.

Blessing

 

" thessalonian - basically yes the entire WOG is contained either directly or by principle inferrable within the Bible which is the WOG"

I think I need scriptural support rather than the words of a mere man like you. Give me a scripture that proves that WOG = Scripture even implicitly. Both are mentioned in scripture. If they are interchangeable then you should be able to prove it.

"I refer to DHK's post just above in reference"

What he said doesn't cut it. I am not going to go around in circles with him as I have wasted too much time on him before. You however are fresh debating material. I will be glad to engage you.

"the oral traditions of God referred to in your post necessary to salvation are contained within the Bible"

Once again in 2 Thes 2:15 Paul mentions the written traditions which are the Bible. We know that. He, however also says "By word of Mouth" traditoins are authoritative "Hold Fast" and praises them in Corinthians (10:2 I think) for following these traditions. You cant say the oral traditions are the written ones or Paul is being redundant. Your interprutation is nonsense.

"Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life no man cometh unto the Father but by me"

So you are saying that Jesus is the pillar and support of the Truth? I believe that is the question you are trying to answer. The scriptures say "the Church is the pillar and support of the truth" 1 Tim 3:15. Now I can see where it can be derived to be Jesus since the Church is the body of Christ (romans 12, 1 Cor 12) but diretly it is the Church. Better study your Bible a bit.

"If we can say that there exists extra-Biblical Words of God that lead to salvation - then these Words would have a power so immense - so effectual that people in possession of these Words could do miracles on the order of the apostolic era"

Human thinking and reasoning. By the way there are plenty of miracles in the Catholic Church. One book for instance records 300 people over the ages being raised from the dead. Now why don't the words of scripture have so much power (It is you that say they don't).

"after all the very spoken Word of God created everything, and when spoken in faith - can move mountains."

Well you say it is all wrapped up in a book. Of course at the end of John's Gospel, we are told that all the books in the world couldn't contain all that Jesus did.

"I deny these extra-Biblical words exist until God Himself decides to tell me otherwise - Ill think Ill insist on Thomas' conditions anyways"

2 Tim 2:2 speaks of the oral transmission of teachings. These of course go hand in hand with scripture. They are explanations and understandings of scripture. They must be passed on orally. They protect the truth from corrupt by men twisting and distorting the scriptures to their own liking, causing thousands if not 10's of thousands of denominatoins.

"The Bible is not just written words it is God manifest - It is Jesus with us - It is the Father with us - It is the Spirit with us!!!"

Hmmmm. The Bible is the Holy Spirit. No the Holy Spirit in us confirms the Bible. I will not say that the Bible is all of Jesus with us. If that were the case there were no bibles before around 400 AD and so then you would have to say Jesus was not with us. Now I do agree that the scriptures are the Word of God which is Jesus but one must have a correct understanding of them to have Jesus. For example the Oneness Pentacostal understanding of the scriptures gives them a Modalistic view of God which is false. They have the scriptures but they do not have the true Jesus so obviously to have the scriptures does not gaurantee that we have Jesus.

Blessings

 

"...Give me a scripture that proves that WOG = Scripture even implicitly. ..."

THis statement has me thinking you are a troll - not a Baptist let alone a Christian, and as such - I refuse to speak to you anymore on this topic - and I am thoroughly ashamed that no one else has stood up for the Bible - this is my final post in this thread


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Psalms 119:89 ¶ LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. {keep?: or, hold fast} {what: Gr. by what speech}
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1John 1:1-4 1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

Luke 10:25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Colossians 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 ¶ And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
1 Thessalonians 2:13 ¶ For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

Sularis,

Thank you for those verses. They are beautiful aren't they. Of couse you have imposed your own meaning on them.

First of all I read the scriptures every day and hold them in the highest regard so my intent is definitely not to undermine them in the slighest but to exalt them by shining the light of truth on them rather than the light of personal opinion which you and thousands if not tens of thousands of Protestant denominations shine on them. You make the common mistake of inserting scripture where you see word of God or Gospel. Once again I have said that the scriptures are the WOG as in a part of the WOG. You'll have to do better. The scriptures speak of hearing and recieving the WOG. It rarely speaks of it being read. Further, when Phillip speaks to the Eunuch he reads out of Isiaha but them apparently embellishes upon it. Were his words the WOG. I think so. They're not recorded in scripture. You still have not given an adequate answer for 2 Thes 2:15. Sorry. Sorry that you are afraid of the dialogue. Troll? Oh how nice.

Blessings

 

DHK, you should read the preface to the 1611 KJV. The translators of that Bible could not disagree with you more, and clearly state that they are continuing the tradition of making scriptures available to the masses in their own languages as was done from the very beginning of Christianity.

 

I have no disagreement with that Harley. But it always wasn't done by the Catholic Church. And when it was done by the Catholic it wasn't done for the benefit of the masses of the people.
DHK

 

The translators do mention Bede and other Catholics, I think.

 

Luke 4:16-17 "And He (Jesus) came to Nazareth where he had been brought up; and as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day and stood up for to read
and there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias and when he had opened the book he found the place where it was wrtitten.....

Jesus read the scriptures

2 timothy 3:16
All scriptureis given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof,for correction,for instruction in righteouness

2 timothy 3;15

and from a child thou hast knowen the Holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

john 20:31

but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God;and that beliving ye might have life through his name.

2 peter 1:19-21

We have also a more sure word of prophecy;whereunto ye do well that ye take heed ,as unto a light that shinth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts knowing this first that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy ghost


The bible points us to jesus for salvation jesus read the sriptures and so should we. we should read it everyday. you want to know jesus read Gods word the Bible.

 

"The bible points us to jesus for salvation jesus read the sriptures and so should we. we should read it everyday. you want to know jesus read Gods word the Bible. "
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Now I am not against reading the Bible but my question is do you have to get anything from shepherds? See Jer 3:15 before you answer. Who are these shepherds?

 

God promised to give his people leaders who would follow him thats the shepards in jeremiah 3:15 Do they read the Bible Gods word YOU BET THEY DO !!! because there are false leaders out there who lead people astry away from God if what they teach doesnt line up with God's word beware they may be false teachers. be like the bereans in acts 17;11 now the bereans who were of more noble character than the tessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. what were the bereans looking for ? it was to see if what paul was telling them to see if what he taught lined up with the scriptures .

God bless

 

how much more to we need to search the scriptures to see what our leaders are teaching us to see if what they teach lines up with Gods word.
in these last days we are living in WE need to search the scriptures every day to be sure our leaders are teaching lines up with what God;s word says.
Have a Blessed Day

 

Oh I agree and I do read the scriptures daily. They fit perfectly with my Catholic faith. Thank you.

Tell me, do you ever find things in your Church that are taught incorrectly because you see there are thousands of denominations out there and they all in one point or another contradict eachother. Contradiction, of course is not of God. I find it doudtful if your pastor has everything correct. So how do you know when he is in error? Have you had such an instance and told him as such? If you don't have knowledge and understanding and the scriptures tell you not to trust in your own understanding (Prov 3:5) and someone gives you false understanding how can you understand that what you don't understand is what you are supposed to be given to understand?

By the way, do you search the Old Testament to see if what you are being taught is correct, because that is what the Bereans did.

 

I cannot and will not vouch for what a bunch of men (no doubt unsaved) that call themselves the Magesterium, will say or believe.
I am not responsible for what other churches or church leaders say or believe.

This I know:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
--Man's heart is wicked and deceitful. One cannot trust every church leader.

I am responsible for the doctrine of the church that I join. If I am a pastor I am responsible to Christ for the doctrines that I teach. If I am a member I am responsible to God and to the pastor to so study my Bible to see if what my pastor is preaching is the truth. If it is not, then go to him. Take the appropriate steps outlined in Mat.18. But be careful, for the Bible says to lay not an accusation against an elder except in the presence of two or three witnesses.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
--The true believer in Christ has received the Holy Spirit, by which he indwelt, and by which he receives illumination from, that he may understand the Word of God. He knows the things that are freely given to him by God, because of the Holy Spirit which he has received.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
--The true believer in Christ can not only understand, but can also teach because he studies and understands what he studies, because he receives illumination from the Holy Spirit of God.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The natural man (the unsaved man--the one in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell), will never come to an understanding of the Word. The Word of God will forever remain foolisness to him. He cannot know it or understand it. He is spiritually blind to the Scriptures. It is only the Holy Spirit that gives true understanding.

Most denominational leaders of so many different denominations today, are probably not even saved. All who trust in their baptism, such as Catholics, are not saved, because they are not wholly trusting in the shed blood of Christ.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
DHK