What is the fate of the unborn?

First, forgive my editing of the comments. I was trying to keep from being repeditive.

I gave this some thought, and I'd have to say all of those. Many may not agree, but not having an opportunity to accept the Gospel is not having an opportunity. Come to think of it, I'd take it further. I'd extend that to right here at home. We often simply assume that everyone we come into contact with has either heard the gospel. My neighbor, for example, is a Muslim, and he says I'm the first person who's ever talked to him about Jesus Christ without yelling at him. He says he's learned more about Jesus from me than all other people combined. What a compliment, I thought. What if I'd simply rammed the Bible down his throat and told him to repent? That wouldn't be me sharing the gospel, it would be me forcing the gospel.

 

What is the point of debating this? Is any good fruit going to come of it? Are any of us God? Why don't we just focus on sharing the gospel with others and leave it in God's hands to be just? Is that so hard, folks?

Neal

 

The Curse is impossible to escape from..all are born of adam..all are cursed..and are going to receive due consequences...which is death.

There are only two ending possibilities of this senerio..We are saved by accepting the actions of another man which he is sacrificing his life for our life....one life for one life..."by faith"

or the one sacrificing His life is God...The perfect Sacrifice equal to the entire race of mankind. One Sacrifice for all...whether the person is aware of such information or whether it be for the ignorant or the unaware of the activities done towards them on their behalf...
"the gift of grace is imputed"

next problem would be the idea that we can refuse the substitution...Cant..you were not a part of the agreement that this activity was to occur on your behalf. God agreed with himself that this activity would occur. Even before the world was even created. That God planned that His creation would become seperated from him. They would learn good with the knowledge of sin and death in plain sight. and that in the end...Sin and death would be defeated...proving himself to be perfect before his creation..

God didnt have to do any of this malarky...but.

He did it to prove his love to us..and our value to Him...and this is just the first "Age"..
Now we see that man is being chosen to be a ongong part of his plans..in the ages to come.
God is choosing a "body" to live through to the rest of his creation......In the ages to come.

Now about those unborn...My opinion is that there thoughtless, hopeless and dreamless.
they cant dream because they have no thought to think, or any intelligence.
Honestly..When you get to heaven..are you expecting some person is going to jump out at you and say,.. "Hi, Im your unborn fetus .?" (that would be spooky)...

So is my opinion that a soul is created in time Hhmm !!??
Is it "Created" by amassing thought, physical activity and memory..idea upon idea.
.....After he or she becomes aware of their "outside" world ?.....
.

 

While for some this may be a plausable belief, I would hate to be the one to tell a young mother whose 6 month old infant just died of SIDS that her baby will spend eternity in hell and that she is, as Paul put it "without hope." of ever seeing that precious bundle again.

 

maybe God will write you a reply... as He's the only one who knows

 

Exactly, sodzei. I will again reiterate that I do not think that this discussion can bear any good fruit. Who cares who we think are going to heaven? God is the One who will make those decisions, not us. I think 2 Tim. 2:23 is good for this thread.

"But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife." 2 Tim. 2:23

This is foolish and ignorant because we are not God (Isa. 55:8-9) and we lack knowledge in this area. And this discussion will probably result in stife.

Neal

 

The past is past. Be more concernd with present. If one is truly concerned for the lost of any nation: any tribe of any part of the world, he will go and be a missionary to those people. Help fulfill the Great Commission.
"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature," is your obligation too.
DHK

 

I am not reluctant to talk about it. I have given you an explanation before with appropriate verses. I shall endeavor to do so again.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
--I don't completely understand this verse, but I accept it by faith. God says that He brings salvation to all men. I will accept that truth by faith. He gives every man the opportunity to repent.

Psalm 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork.
--One of the ways that God reveals Himself is through nature. The heavens declare the glory of God. Man just has to look around him at the universe, at nature in general, and see that this world has a deliberate designer and did not come into existence by mere chance. Order does not arise out of chaos. Someone deliberately designed the working of all the universe and the world and all that is therein.

Rom.1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
--Paul uses the same argument here. The invisible things of Him, i.e., God, are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made or created by God. Look around and examined God's creation. It alone demonstrates who God is. Then Paul declares: "you are without excuse." Mankind is without excuse for not knowing God, about God, and even about the eternal Godhead.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
--Man in general is lost, that is true. When Christ ascended into heaven he left the "fate" of the world into the hand of just 12 disciples. He had no other plan. Should these men fail, all would be lost. The same is true today. If we (Christians) fail, all will be lost. It was their (the disciples) duty to carry the gospel to the world. It is our duty to carry the gospel to the world. If we fail to be a witness to even the farthest most tribes of the world, their blood will be upon our hands. We have an obligation upon our hands, as does each successive generation, to carry out the Great Commission. Instead of pondering over how these people will get saved, go to them and make sure they will get saved by giving them the gospel. In Acts 1:8 our duty is spelled out that we should be witnesses, even unto the ends of the world.
Rom.10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
--Verse 13 simply says that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. That is how simple salvation is.
--But verses 14,15 give the problem involved: How can they believe on Him whom they have not heard? How can they hear without a preacher. Someone needs to be sent. Who will go with the message of salvation?

We go back to the illustration of Cornelius, a gentile, who genuinely wanted to know God. God answered his prayer though he was unsaved and sent to him Peter. Peter preached the gospel to him that he was able to be saved. Anyone who genuinely wants to be saved God will provide a way that they may be saved. "The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."
DHK

 

My statements towards the unintelligent unborn was concerning the absolute. An unborn is known of God as just that. unborn.....never to become a living, breathing soul.
In our linear timeline..We see a baby being aborted..never to be able to live..
God sees a baby that was not to live in our linear time. A baby that was not to be.

A man or women is described by what they know.(past tense) and not what they could have known or experienced. therefore anything experienced in linear time "is not" until it happens. The babys body wasnt to be and the "soul" wasnt to grow.

A woman with a child who has died knows faintley if at all possible that "everything" will turn out ok. according to Gods Will...and not her's...

My concern is about the calliousness we seem to reach if at all giving worth of an unknown value towards a fetus..while forgetting the known values of Humans who have lived full lives and have died without "knowing" God personally.

my concern is with the judgement calls of posters that think God will Damn human beings of the past who's culture did not have the gospel circulating in it..whether it be antidilluvian or present day china. to simply dismiss 100's of billions of people who's language, culture, or even religious and governmental ruling bodies disallowed such proliferation of such beliefs.

Do We believe That The Plans Of God Are That Callous to Forget Whole Populations of People without a single word ?

or We that Callous to desire to See God Punish People who we have no record of even Hearing or Growing From the Gospel Of Jesus.?
Is God Allowing us To live that blindliy in that we are believing He Will Punish 95 % of His Creation because we know that we hear and understand the message of Jesus in a way that They couldnt or will not.

Me2

 

One question I would like everyone to consider... Was not the genetic makeup of an aborted fetus tainted with the sin nature?... Then when did life occur?... Does not life occur the moment of conception and is that how everyone sees it?... If so then the life is a living person male or female whether it sees the light of day or not... Whether it is thrust into the sin cursed world or not?

Being that it has a sin nature and if it doesn't and the scriptures state we are all sinners even John The Baptist that leapt in his mothers womb was... And Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners... If the life at conception does not have the sin nature because of the fall of Adam and Eve its ancient ancestral parents... Then it is not saved.

Just because we cannot see the early life at conception does not mean it does not belong to God! That life as soon as it begins is his... And if it dies on the way to being born... before the time it is thrust into the world... It still belong to him and is one of his redeemed!... This is the God I worship and serve!... Brother Glen

 

Heres something to ponder...

If God combines a perfect spirit with the genetic foundations to create a living being..
the cells of the body contains decay and therefore "taints" the perfect nature of the spirit.

Does the taint make the spirit and soul permanantly imperfect ?

Upon seperation from this body of "sin"..Is the spirit and soul, able to be restored to perfection again.?

ie,. whether towards the unborn without knowledge, or even perhaps an infant with some intelligence.

The body of decay was our legacy from birth. but in revelation an "inside" reference was eluded to as Christ being called the "Lamb of God" slain before the foundation of the world. that the creator promised to himself that this was to be...
Even before Adam Fell and the world started the "domino effect" of entropy (which
by the way was designed to exist with.....)

God designed this world in which entropy would play an integral part. and Adam HAD TO knocked over the "first" domino. or the beginning of the processes of Birth and Death of all (bios) life itself would not have begun. (ie, The plant kingdom depends on entropy to exist. To reproduce.)... Many things we're "made" to reproduce "with seed".

Can we even believe that the term "law of the jungle" was to be the "norm" designed to exist
in this "form" of life in this age.? (At least we're not "overrun" with evil...running amuck. .. )

So we see the Gods plan of Adam was TO FALL..introducing entropy...which is death. but yet God Himself planned to be sacrificed "before" The world was even made physical.

Now we're back to God placing the unborn spirit and soul into the human body of decay which would cause the unborn to be instantly rejected by God because of being "tainted".

I say this to remind all that the promise to be restored occured before the unveiling of the planned events and introduction of the fall, entropy, seperation and death.

If God Emphatically expresses to his creation that he is infinite love. and he places his creation in this "dire" situation.

What appears to be being actually developing is insight into understanding the Faith in God where hope is virtually impossible without his involvement and ultimate help.

The question should be..Would God allow his creation to continue to become "destroyed or will he save it...and the second part..how much if any would he allow to be "destroyed".

or in simpler terms....How much does God really love each individual ?

Can we really believe His Son was sacrificed for every individual born and God the Father imputed that righteousness to each individual ?

He doesnt Love his creation that much ?

...or Does He... ?


Me2