Trib begins

Tamborine Lady,

You will think I am a heretic, but here goes.
It is my opinion that the tribulation began when the temple was destroyed by Titus in AD 70.
It is my opinion that there will be no secret rapture, but there will be the arrival of the King, and His angels will remove all from His Kingdom that is offensive.
It is my opinion that when the rapture does occur that there will be no one left but the righteous.
And I do have Scripture that points in that direction.
What do you think?

 

I agree with Shewfly. We are in 'the great ordeal'.

 

I sorta agree with Shewfly. And I even think I know the Scripture that Shewfly is referring to.

Joseph Botwinick

 

2 weeks ago, I stood at Megiddo...
"The Devil's Last Stand"...NOT!

 

Considering that "the Great Tribulation" is really the fifth seal, and the seals are more the revelation of unfolding conditions (that graduate to bigger and worse fulfillments) than singular one-time events, then to that extent, they are right that it began around AD70. (Certainly better than the other view I am debating which says we are in the eternal kingdom already. AD70 was but a type of the future events).

Even though I believe the rapture doesn't occur until the 7th trumpet (Rev.14), still, I can tell you what life will be like under the other Trumpets.
One thing many people don't realize, is that the rise of the Beast is symbolically protrayed in the fifth trumpet! Notice, the "locusts" ascend out of the "bottomless pit", like the Beast is later said to. People take "appearance of locusts" literally, but this is obviously describing a military power that had been inactive ("bottomless pit") now coming back to power. This is all strongly supported by the following scriptures: Joel 2:1-11— at blowing of trumpet, God leads "strong people" (appearance of horses) against Israel. 1:6— lion's teeth ref.; Nahum 3:17, crown/locust ref. (Ninevah/Assyria is prototype of the future "beast" kingdom).
That is AFTER the first four trumpets, or "4 winds", in which an entire third of the world is already destroyed, and many people killed. Such enormous worldwide occurrences, all shipping destroyed, perhaps entire nations being wiped out, will definitely change the entire geopolitical structure, thus reordering the world. This, PLUS the actual fall of Satan himself to the earth in the midst of this, will greatly accelerate the rise of a world ruler, and his system over all the frenzied surviving masses. (True believers, while not "raptured" yet, will be protected —Luke 21:36).
Then, after the rapture is the bowl(vial) judgments, or the "seven last plagues", and the what life for the people here then is like is clearly shown in the passage.

 

Based upon what is written in Revelation - I'd say that life will be "hell" on earth!

 

I dunno why.... but that remark struck me funny!

Music4Him

 

Dunno that for sure. Dunno if the "seven years" is to be literal, or symblic of something else. If all the numeric references in Revelation were to be literal, then we'd "literally" be looking for a "666" mark. Sure, folks are donna say "I know", or "I'm pretty sure", but no one can say for sure. It hasn't happenned yet.

Better to put efforts on studying the first coming instead of the second coming.

 

Tamborine Lady,

I believe that the next event on this earth will be the rapture. Sinners, who will be the only ones left here on earth, will be looking for a reason for the multi-millions of people who have left this planet. More sinners than you think will know what happened. They know enough about the Bible to realize that Jesus has taken His people home to Heaven.

The Restrainer, the Holy Spirit, who lived in the lives of the saved will no longer be here to hold the standard of evil in this world. Things will get worse. I have wondered what will happen to property, cars, and financial securities when people are gone and have not left a will. Some unsaved relatives will come into money, by our absence. In other cases, no relatives will be left here; what will happen to their finances. Will people fight for legal right to these funds?

I believe that at the mid-Tribulation period about 3 1/2 years after the Rapture of the church that the antichrist will become dominant over the entire world. The one world global economy will be a way of life and then the real evil will unfold. The trouble we have in the world today will be like a 'cake-walk' compared to what the future Great Tribulation will be like. No earth person {the unsaved} will be able to buy or sell goods without the mark of the beast, meaning the antichrist. He will be a man of world power and renown. [Revelation 13:16-18]

Those who refuse the 'mark of the antichrist' will be executed by being beheaded. [Rev. 13:15c & 20:4d]

No nation will be safe, from what I can understand. [Revelation 7:14] The dead will go into the Presence of the Lord and will be among those who return at the Second Coming of Christ. [19:11-21 especially vs. 14] The rapture saints and the Great Tribulation saints will return with Christ to destroy the enemies of Christ. [vs. 14]

The Great Tribulation era of seven years will experience all of the judgments of the Book of Revelation including the Seal, Trumpet and Vial judgments.

The Second Coming of Christ has not happened. Revelation 6:15-17 tells us that sinners will hide ' . . . in caves, and in the rocks of the mountains.' No historians have recorded His coming and no newspapers in the capitals of the world have announced this catastrophic and miraculous event.

The thought of martyrdom by way of being beheaded does not sound like a Sunday School picnic to me. This will be the sinner's last chance to enter Heaven during the time of the future Great Tribulation.

Tambornine Lady; I hope this gives you a window from which to see God's future providence and world-wide judgments to come in the future.

 

Perhaps the reluctance to answer your question is because the Pre-Trib rapture is myth. Since there won't be a pre-trib rapture, there is no sense discussing an imaginary situation which will in no way correspond to reality.

 

Theological words in the Bible really do have designated meanings.

There is a difference between the word 'tribulation' in Revelation 2:9 & 10 and that of the Great Tribulation referred to in Matthew 24:21 & Revelation 7:14.

There are Christians in Russia, China, and in Islamic nations who are suffering right now in their tribulation. But, the one that Jesus elevates for our consideration is a tribulation so horrible and world-wide that it is unprecedented in all of that which we call time. Thus, the Bible term, the Great Tribulation.

 

1 Peter 4:17-18 (HCSB):

For the time has come for judgment to begin with God's household;
and if it begins with us, what will the outcome
be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous is saved with difficulty,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

Can we join in reading together the lead-in post?

Tamborine Lady: "I do not want this to be about when
the rapture occurs, but what happens after that
to the people who are left."

 

Amen, Brother Ray Berrian -- Preach it!


The Five Tribulations
of the Holy Bible
Contrasted and compared
by ed

The following terms are used in the Holy Bible to denote
tribulation: tribulation, distress, afliction, trouble

1. tribulation due to the human condition
WHO: all the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve
WHAT: heartaches, pains, troubles, distresses, disappointements,
affliction, trouble, ordeal, suffering, wretchedness,
misfortune, worry, care, hardship, agony,
anguish, torment, adversity,
travail of a woman giving birth, disease, cancer,
famine, plague, fatigue, depression, etc.
WHEN: From Adam's explusion from the Garden of Eden
to the day a new heaven & new earth is created by
God, AKA: time as opposed to eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: God only knows why, it is just the way things are,
maybe it has to do with the fall of man in the Garden of Eden?

2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
WHO: those Christians chosen by the Holy Spirit for special honor
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
even people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: 33AD to the start of the millinnial kingdom of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: many are called to follow Jesus;
few are chosen to the honor of the spiritual
gift of martyrdom

3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
WHO: Yisrael dispersed among the goy
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
usually people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: during the time of the Gentiles
(from Mount Calvary to Mount Olivet)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Messiah Jesus

4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist
WHO: citizens of the world
WHAT: a fate worse than death (Rev 6:15-17, Rev 9:6)
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (first half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
WHO: people who take the mark of the beast
WHAT: the wrath of God
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

Here are the names/descriptions of the Tribulation
Period found in the O.T.:

The tribulation in Deut 4:30
the day of Israel's calamity in Deut 32:35, Obadiah 1:12-14
the indignation in Isaiah 26:20, Daniel 11:36
the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15,18
The Lord's strange work in Isaiah 28:21
The year of recompence in Isaiah 34:8
The day of vengeance in Isaiah 34:8, 35:4, 61:2
The time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7
The day of darkness in Joel 2:2, Amos 5:18, 20; Zephaniah 1:15
See also Zephaniah 1:15-16.:

 

During the Tribulation Period Judgement(s) things
will go from bad to worse.

Matthew 24:21-22 (HCSB):

For at that time there will be great tribulation,
the kind that hasn't taken place since the beginning
of the world until now, and never will again!
22 [/b]Unless those days were cut short, no one would survive.[/b]

When the four horsemen began to ride,
we see the horror of those days.
After I believe some 400 million saved are raptured and
I believe some 5,600 million resurrected (total
of the current population of the earth), the ones
left will be destroyed by the billions by Satan's wrath,
other billions of God's wrath, and even more
billions by each other.

Have you heard of the 3-year siege of Lenningrad
during WW2? The only persons not skin and bones
were the cannibals. The tribulation will be worse,
a seven year siege of the world. The ones who survive
to the end (excluding a few million Jews God will
protect in the wilderness) will be the meaneast,
most evil, the ones who kill the fastest.

I believe at the pretribulation rapture there will be
another 800 Million souls raptured who are irresponsible
children and babies and the unborn.
Every womb will be emptied by the pretribualtion rapture.
Conception will be impossible in the Tribulation period judgements
(except for Jews under God's protection).
There will be no hope left on the world, for the future
generations will be taken away from them.

Hopeless world, no food, no future.

Revelation 6:5-6 (HCSB):
When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say,
"Come!" And I looked, and there was a black horse.
The horseman on it had a balance scale in his hand.
6 Then I heard something like a voice among the four living creatures say,
"A quart of wheat for a denarius,
and three quarts of barley for a denarius--but
do not harm the olive oil and the wine."

A denarius is a day's wages.
Then the black horse of famine rides,
you must choose wheather to feed or family for now or
feed your livestock for the future -- not both. Forget having
anything better than the most basic food.

Probably no food will be produced during the 7-years

 

II Thessalonians two introduces the fact that Paul is telling the church to get ready for His coming for His people. Verse one was the Apostle Paul's hope and is still our blessed hope also.

This chapter also introduces another player but of an evil personality and personhood. 'The man of sin' . . . . the son of Hell will be revealed who will take his seat in the Temple of God in Jerusalem. In this Thessalonian passage the Apostle Paul explains in verse six that something is restraining evil until the Lord Himself allows this godless, despot to enter in on the world scene. Some think it is the democratic, pro-liberty types of nations/governments, while other Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is controlling evil at this time in world history. Yes, evil is prevalent now, but when the church is taken to Heaven, all kinds of unrestrained evil is going to be happening. No one will be safe in their own home.

Paul freely admits even in his days on earth that 'the mystery of iniquity was at work.' [vs. 7] God is saying in this verse that 'only he who now letteth/restraineth will let go as he is taken out of the way.' Personally, I believe this He is the Holy Spirit who keeps back some of the rising, tide of evil and evil persons. The Greek word for 'letteth' is {katechown} meaning: 'to hold down, to hold fast, to retain, to seize on, or to take hold of something. During this Rapture, which will not be secret, but known to the whole world, the Presence of the Holy Spirit in all Christians will ascend into Heaven; the Restrainer will be gone from this old earth.

The antichrist will rule and reign in this world in the future. [Revelation 13:13-18] This is called the era of the Great Tribulation. [Matt. 24 & Rev. 7:14]

After this era of time Christ will return to earth in His Second Coming to this planet. Who will Jesus destroy? {that Wicked One/antichrist} [II Thess. 2:8] is 'a man' [Revelation 13:18c]

These future events are not myths as liberal/non-Christian belief suggests to anyone who will believe this lie, which was birthed in the abyss of Hell.

Each day we live we are one day closer to His coming for true believers who love and serve Him/Christ.

 

Ed Edwards,

Thanks for telling the people on the Baptist Board this most sobering truth. When we are gone, if Jesus comes during our life time, some here on the board, if not saved, will remember our expressing the truth of the 'mark of the beast.' [Revelation 13:17] Hopefully, they will not yield to the pressure to taking this 'mark' (666) of eternal death in Hell.

It is possible that some of these judgments during the Great Tribulation may overlap. Meaning the {Seal, Trumpet, and Vial} judgments on all sinful, lost souls. I don't think anyone knows for sure about how He will punish the lost ones. By this I mean all of these judgments may not overlap. But, like you expressed it is going to be as though Hell had vomitted all its demons up and on to this place called the world.

Some of these non-believers will not be calling the Great Tribulation and the Rapture a myth when these soul shaking events begin to occur.

 

"Sinners, who will be the only ones left here on earth, will be looking for a reason for the multi-millions of people who have left this planet."
'''
An interesting area of speculation is the question of the amount and type of people raptured.
If only a comparatively small number is Raptured, let's say 400.000 instead of 400 million and almost all of those are located in 3rd world countries Rapture minded Christians in the 1st world might not even realize that the Rapture has passed them by.

My personal favorite Rapture all gone wrong scenario is the classic:"We wake up one morning and all Catholics* have disappeared..."
There is a very good psychological novel in there somewhere

*This can be replaced by one of the following: liberal Mennonites, mildmannered Methodists, excentric Eastern-Orthodox, socially conscious Quakers, inventive Shakers, or any other Christian group that does not believe at all in the Rapture and has some ideas distinctly different from those who do.