Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
I would imagine that this would depend upon what you specifically say to them.
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is it right for men to post in forums moderated by women?
- Thread starter timothy 1769
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dianetavegia
Guest
Nick! Don't throw that football! (Ever? Or just in the house?)
Context people, Context!
Context people, Context!
timothy 1769
New Member
Originally posted by Jimmy C:
When scripture is outside the box that you are comforatble with you ignore it or apply your own logic to it.
really? i don't see that at all. what scripture have i ignored? if my logic is faulty, point out the errors!
The greek word for deacon and servant is the same, translators applied thier own bias to Phoebe.
hmm. well i am kjvo, so to debate that would be a huge side issue, where ultimately nothing would be resolved. trust me
but if for the sake of argument i grant your point, i don't see why being a deacon necessarily requires having authority over men.
As to Priscilla are you saying that corrected Appolos' doctrine is not coming under the authority of Priscilla!!! I would say she was directly under the authority of priscilla
that's not very convincing. if i visit someones house, and they fill in my knowledge on some topic, that in no way places me under their authority.
in any event, for some reason everyone tends to ignore that the husband was present, lol. if i'm lost and some man and his wife tell me the way to my destination, his wife has is no way usurped authority over me.
Your take on Deborah is your INTERPRETATION, the fact is God chose a WOMAN to be Judge then, and he choses women today, no matter how hard headed and hearted we men happen to get!
that doesn't logically follow. god is not obligated to continue calling females to leadership any more than he obligated to continue calling prophets.
When scripture is outside the box that you are comforatble with you ignore it or apply your own logic to it.
really? i don't see that at all. what scripture have i ignored? if my logic is faulty, point out the errors!
The greek word for deacon and servant is the same, translators applied thier own bias to Phoebe.
hmm. well i am kjvo, so to debate that would be a huge side issue, where ultimately nothing would be resolved. trust me
but if for the sake of argument i grant your point, i don't see why being a deacon necessarily requires having authority over men.
As to Priscilla are you saying that corrected Appolos' doctrine is not coming under the authority of Priscilla!!! I would say she was directly under the authority of priscilla
that's not very convincing. if i visit someones house, and they fill in my knowledge on some topic, that in no way places me under their authority.
in any event, for some reason everyone tends to ignore that the husband was present, lol. if i'm lost and some man and his wife tell me the way to my destination, his wife has is no way usurped authority over me.
Your take on Deborah is your INTERPRETATION, the fact is God chose a WOMAN to be Judge then, and he choses women today, no matter how hard headed and hearted we men happen to get!
that doesn't logically follow. god is not obligated to continue calling females to leadership any more than he obligated to continue calling prophets.
timothy 1769
New Member
are you going to present a biblical argument, or merely continue with personal insults and invitations to go away?
i'm not debating the policy of this board, i'm debating what the bible teaches about gender and authority.
this type of rude, unwelcoming post does not advance your viewpoint, in fact it does the very opposite - making it look very weak indeed.
please respond back with sound scriptural arguments against what i have presented, if they haven't been advanced already. be sure to account for all the scripture i've posted as well.
i'm open to changing my view, in many ways it would be a huge relief.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Hi Timothy,
What is your take on 2 Kings 22?
Joseph Botwinick
What is your take on 2 Kings 22?
Joseph Botwinick
are you going to present a biblical argument, or merely continue with personal insults and invitations to go away?
i'm not debating the policy of this board, i'm debating what the bible teaches about gender and authority.
this type of rude, unwelcoming post does not advance your viewpoint, in fact it does the very opposite - making it look very weak indeed.
please respond back with sound scriptural arguments against what i have presented, if they haven't been advanced already. be sure to account for all the scripture i've posted as well.
i'm open to changing my view, in many ways it would be a huge relief. </font>[/QUOTE]Everyone has given you scripture, would you like me to repeat it. I had assumed you only needed to read it once. You just refuse to beleive scripture on the subject. You seem to not like the fact women post here too.
acts 18:26So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
judges 4:4Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim. And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6Then she sent and called for Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali, and said to him, “Has not the LORD God of Israel commanded, ‘Go and deploy troops at Mount Tabor; take with you ten thousand men of the sons of Naphtali and of the sons of Zebulun;
What I was saying was if you feel a woman has authroity over you, then you shouldn't be here.
Biblically I don't see the internet as being in the bible.
judges 4:4Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim. And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6Then she sent and called for Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali, and said to him, “Has not the LORD God of Israel commanded, ‘Go and deploy troops at Mount Tabor; take with you ten thousand men of the sons of Naphtali and of the sons of Zebulun;
What I was saying was if you feel a woman has authroity over you, then you shouldn't be here.
Biblically I don't see the internet as being in the bible.
Your probably one of those guys who thinks all women are stupid and never could possibly have anything to contribute. And by cotributing to a conversation she is having authority over you. So is there ever a time whn there is a woman who knows more on any given topic then you? Or do you automatically know more becaue she is a woman?
timothy 1769
New Member
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
What is your take on 2 Kings 22?
thanks joseph, this is the kind of thing i'm looking for.
perhaps relaying verbatim god's word is not the same thing
as being a teacher or having disciples, not unlike like the difference between a king's messenger and a prime minister. one wields authority, the other does not.
there is a similar situation with the prophetess preaching in the temple after jesus's birth.
another possibility is that these commands were only given to the church, and not to israel, even though the basic principle was there since creation, not unlike jesus's teachings on divorce.
What is your take on 2 Kings 22?
thanks joseph, this is the kind of thing i'm looking for.
perhaps relaying verbatim god's word is not the same thing
as being a teacher or having disciples, not unlike like the difference between a king's messenger and a prime minister. one wields authority, the other does not.
there is a similar situation with the prophetess preaching in the temple after jesus's birth.
another possibility is that these commands were only given to the church, and not to israel, even though the basic principle was there since creation, not unlike jesus's teachings on divorce.
timothy 1769
New Member
more insults? i wish you would contribute to the debate, you may know or see something i do not. i have already dealt with those scriptures you reposted, to my own satisfaction if not to anyone else's. is there anything more? i may be swayed by the preponderance of evidence, but it's going to take a lot to refute what i see as being apostolic teaching, based on principles laid down in the creation/fall of man.
timothy 1769
New Member
i also wanted to add this - i don't think advancing some scripture to support one's position is enough, all apparently opposing scripture must be adequately explained/harmonized as well.
more insults? i wish you would contribute to the debate, you may know or see something i do not. i have already dealt with those scriptures you reposted, to my own satisfaction if not to anyone else's. is there anything more? i may be swayed by the preponderance of evidence, but it's going to take a lot to refute what i see as being apostolic teaching, based on principles laid down in the creation/fall of man. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry I don't see an insult here. Your compaining about women being mods and posting on the BB.
Timothy, I have a far greater problem with someone like you who has an unteachable spirit than with women moderating a forum.
You have been told, on the first page, what the situation is Scripturally and here on the BB. You don't like it. You don't agree.
Tough. If you cannot handle yourself properly you will find nothing but trouble from me. This is not a joke. I've read your constant replies NOT seeking to learn or grow, but only to contend. Sad.
And I am a male AND a pastor AND Administrator here.
You have been told, on the first page, what the situation is Scripturally and here on the BB. You don't like it. You don't agree.
Tough. If you cannot handle yourself properly you will find nothing but trouble from me. This is not a joke. I've read your constant replies NOT seeking to learn or grow, but only to contend. Sad.
And I am a male AND a pastor AND Administrator here.
timothy 1769
New Member
really? where? quote me please.
timothy 1769
New Member
Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Timothy, I have a far greater problem with someone like you who has an unteachable spirit than with women moderating a forum.
does that mean you do have a problem with women moderating a forum? what problem is that? i have no problem with it. it is not usurping authority, the problem, if any, is with men who post there.
You have been told, on the first page, what the situation is Scripturally and here on the BB. You don't like it. You don't agree.
is that really the best argument that can be made? i personally don't care what the situation is on this BB. perhaps i should, but right now i'm more concerned with how this affects me. i know that's wrong. i don't mean posting on a bulletin board, but the wider issues.
Tough. If you cannot handle yourself properly you will find nothing but trouble from me.
please point out where i'm not handling myself properly. i am ready and willing to apologize if i've treated anyone improperly.
This is not a joke. I've read your constant replies NOT seeking to learn or grow, but only to contend. Sad.
you, sir, and condemning me without cause. one day that will be clear to you. am i wrong on this issue? possibly. i kind of wish i were, at that's sad. i should be willing to go wherever the scripture leads, without concern for how difficult my life may be as a result. i want to do the will of god. do you believe that? part of me doesn't care what it costs, part of me does. that's what sad. what's sad is coming to this board, hoping that the scripture doesn't say what it seems to. i hate this world. i hate being here. i hate sinning all the time, and i wish it could all just be over.
Timothy, I have a far greater problem with someone like you who has an unteachable spirit than with women moderating a forum.
does that mean you do have a problem with women moderating a forum? what problem is that? i have no problem with it. it is not usurping authority, the problem, if any, is with men who post there.
You have been told, on the first page, what the situation is Scripturally and here on the BB. You don't like it. You don't agree.
is that really the best argument that can be made? i personally don't care what the situation is on this BB. perhaps i should, but right now i'm more concerned with how this affects me. i know that's wrong. i don't mean posting on a bulletin board, but the wider issues.
Tough. If you cannot handle yourself properly you will find nothing but trouble from me.
please point out where i'm not handling myself properly. i am ready and willing to apologize if i've treated anyone improperly.
This is not a joke. I've read your constant replies NOT seeking to learn or grow, but only to contend. Sad.
you, sir, and condemning me without cause. one day that will be clear to you. am i wrong on this issue? possibly. i kind of wish i were, at that's sad. i should be willing to go wherever the scripture leads, without concern for how difficult my life may be as a result. i want to do the will of god. do you believe that? part of me doesn't care what it costs, part of me does. that's what sad. what's sad is coming to this board, hoping that the scripture doesn't say what it seems to. i hate this world. i hate being here. i hate sinning all the time, and i wish it could all just be over.
Terry_Herrington
New Member
Timothy,
Take it easy. Nothing being discussed in this thread is worth you getting this upset. It is obvious that you do not agree with the general consensus here. Take a few deep breaths and simply agree to disagree.
Take it easy. Nothing being discussed in this thread is worth you getting this upset. It is obvious that you do not agree with the general consensus here. Take a few deep breaths and simply agree to disagree.
timothy 1769
New Member
johnv, here you go. i have hightlighted what i consider to be the core of my argument to help make it easier to understand, but all of the passages are important.
Genesis 2:18
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
note the apostle paul applies these teachings to men beyond a woman's husband in 1timothy 2:11 and 1corinthians 11 below. that means it's impossible to uphold that these passages apply only to married women with their individual husbands AND the inspiration of 1timothy and 1corinthians at the same time.
1Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
note this doesn't say "married women".
1Timothy 2:11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1corinthians 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
...
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
notice these passages say nothing about a woman being married, all women are referenced here. and this can't just be referring to a particular married couple, for verse 8 would make no sense - of course a husband is not taken from his wife! both of these verses refer back to the above verses from genesis, which the apostle paul applies to all men and all women, regardless of marital status.
Genesis 2:18
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
note the apostle paul applies these teachings to men beyond a woman's husband in 1timothy 2:11 and 1corinthians 11 below. that means it's impossible to uphold that these passages apply only to married women with their individual husbands AND the inspiration of 1timothy and 1corinthians at the same time.
1Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
note this doesn't say "married women".
1Timothy 2:11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1corinthians 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
...
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
notice these passages say nothing about a woman being married, all women are referenced here. and this can't just be referring to a particular married couple, for verse 8 would make no sense - of course a husband is not taken from his wife! both of these verses refer back to the above verses from genesis, which the apostle paul applies to all men and all women, regardless of marital status.