Babies is heaven?!?

Matthew 18:9  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10  Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.


Oh you got me started! I wondered about where my daughter went when she died last year. She was 12 months old. THis verse here.....proves that our LITTLE ones are in heaven.
Here is the evidence that you needed. TO me this verse proves that predestination is a false doctrine. It also reminds me where my daugher is. MY whole family is catholic. My daugher was not baptised. it is hard not to be offended by someone who supports a church that says my daughter is in hell because of works.
SHE IS IN HEAVEN BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!!!!
Praise the LORD!
DD.

 

Murph, although some calvinists believe this, we all don't. I believe babies will be in heaven.

 

DinkyDoo, Of course your baby is with the Lord. All babies are. Read Matthew 18:3-5 and 19:4! The children belong to the Lord, start to finish.

They are covered by His sacrifice completely, despite their sin natures, since He was also the sacrifice for unintentional sins (and I personally have strong doubts about the ability of a baby to sin! They can be cranky and exhibit sin nature, but to actually consciously disobey a law in rebellion??? -- I have my doubts!)

I have a profoundly retarded son of 18, and I know he is not in any danger of hell -- I am occasionally in danger of insanity taking care of him (!), but he is perfectly safe with the Lord, even though he certainly does have a sin nature! But he has absolutely no comprehension of what a 'law' is, only that certain things are to be avoided when mom is around because she gets somewhat upset... Nor does he have any idea of what "Jesus" or "gospel" or "sin" are.

But he has wonderful hugs and really responds to love -- and music.

Our babies are safe.

 

I don't think the Bible is clear about it. However I agree with most everything John Piper writes at

http://www.desiringgod.org/library/theological_qa/infant_salv/infants.html

 

Oh, and just to be one of those anyoying guys with anyoying and uncomfterable questions, doesn't it appear that since most people in this country are not true believers that it is not such a bad thing for a baby to be aborted, I mean, chances are if they are not they are going to hell? Another way to say it, doesn't it seem that abortion has saved more souls then preaching the gospel in the last 40 years.

Okay, going ahead and kill me.

 

Hi Pete,

It's not the aborted babies I'm worried about in terms of their eternal destiny. They are the innocent victims of murder.

It's the murderers I'm concerned about. The doctors and nurses who know this is a little baby they are killing and dumping. And the mothers, some of whom may simply be deceived about the import of what it all means, but many who have hardened their hearts to it so much that taking an innocent life for the sake of their immorality and convenience seems "fine."

And the effect all this has on society.

We have thousands of murderers in our midst, and we wonder where we have gone wrong as a society....

 

Pete;

Are you actually advocating murdering babies so they will go to Heaven???

Surely you jest!

 

I am blessed 16,
I cannot speak for Pete, but I would think that he is simply asking a question that many have thought about at sometime or another; I know I have, and he is probably right.

Please understand that this IN NO WAY justifies the practice of abortion. This same logic could be applied to children 6 months old. No one, I hope, would try to justify the murder of a 6 month old baby in order to assure its place in heaven.

God has given specific directions concerning our children. We are to love and care for them. It is our responsibility to trust God and leave these questions with Him.

We need to understand that we only know a fraction of what is actually going on both in the physical and spiritual worlds, and it is our faith that allows us to trust that God will always do only what is right.

He does not have to explain everything that he does in order for it to be right. Believe me, this is not some problem that caught God by suprise.

 

Hi Terry;

I understand what you are saying, I think.

I took Pete's remarks to mean that the unsaved aborting their babies was all right since they probably wouldn't go to Heaven if they were allowed to be born and raised in a non-Christian home.

I think his closing remark proves that is what he meant to say.

I was not saved when I had my four children. Even as an unsaved person, I knew, in my heart, that abortion was wrong and would never have considered that route.

Guess what?

I got saved when I was 32 and my children and my husband got saved shortly thereafter. We are all actively serving God, and I have a son who is the Pastor of a IFB church.

So, to go back to Pete's statement/question. Killing babies is wrong ANYTIME. Unsaved people are getting saved everyday!

Blessings,
Sue

 

This is a subject I stay well away from; I get too emotional.

But an interesting stat that can sometimes shock people into listening to you.

On 9/11/01 more Americans were slaughtered (statistically, no-one has an exact count) at the hands of American doctors than at the hands of AlQuaida.

In New York for every 1000 live births there have been around 470 terminations.

Makes you wonder where the real enemy is.

DAB

 

If they are all going to heaven, then that will mean that the majority of souls in heaven never spent a waking, breathing moment out of the womb.

Throw in instant salvation for children who have died under 10, plus all the miscarriages (a very high proportion of conceptions end in misscarried zygotes, often without the mother even aware of it).

Looking at the rest of the world, I'll make a generous estimation that 10 percent is 'Born Again'.

So we can figure that in heaven, around 90 - 95 percent of the souls there will never have had to make the choice to accept Christ.
Most of those in fact will never have even been born.

Interesting.

-KFC

 

You may have just answered an interesting question, KFC: in Rev. 22:6, we see that we will reign with Christ for ever and ever. And I have wondered who we will reign over....?

Interesting thought...

 

So your idea is that we would be reigning over the souls that have passed as youngsters and the unborn?

You'll excuse me if I'm a little unsettled by that notion.

-KFC

 

I have absolutely NO idea! You just started me wondering, that's all.

It is written that we shall reign.

Over what? Over whom?

Did you hit on something there? I cannot claim to know. Someday we will know, but for me that time sure is not now!

 

HELEN ;

I am a little out of my realm here; but here is a verse concerning the new heaven, the new earth, and the new Jerusalem where we will reign ON EARTH with God.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away..: Revelation 21:1

This event is to take place after the second ressurection and the white throne judgement.

The new earth is the dwelling place throughout eternity for the saints of all ages and fulfills the hope of Abraham for the heavenly city.

The new Jerusalem is the capitol city of the new earth. God's people will inhabit the whole earth, not just Jerusalem.

The earth will be like the Garden of Eden.

Read Revelation 21-22 to see what our new home will be like!

Blessings,
Sue

 

Hi Sue,

Yes, it is the new heaven and the new earth. And since the 'third heaven' of the OT is "God's Throne" and since it is written of the new Jeruslem, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God" (REv. 21:3), my personal assumption is that this is literally 'heaven on earth' then.

And after the description of the Tree of Life, His name on our foreheads, and the lack of need for lamp or sun (vv 1-5a), chapter 22 of Revelation then says, simply, "And they will reign for ever and ever."

Over whom? I don't mind waiting to find out what happens, but the mention of the babies and such did make me wonder, that's all.

 

ALL BABIES are born in sin. Whether by pratice or nature, we are concieved in original sin.(Rom 5:12)

"...in sin did my mother concieve me..."Ps 51:5
"Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one." Job 14:4

That means that even babies need salvation!

David expressed his hope that the child he prayed for would live, however,the baby died. He then said, "can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." 2 Sam 12:23

What could David possibly have faith in? The child? No. But His saviour! "The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in His mercy." Ps 147:11 David expressed his hope that there would be a reunion.

This Scripture gives any one who has lost a child hope that God's mercy reaches down to the little ones. I would much rather have it that way.

But to say that a child's salvation is dependent upon a certain age of accountability or that God makes exceptions, I think some people get that out of the Bible not in it.

The fact that a baby dies proves my point. Sin takes life. So if that life is saved it must be by the will of God, not the flesh or the will of man. (Jn 1:13)

A baby that does not make a confession simply does not evince that salvation. Confession is not the cause but the effect of our salvation. It is by him that we do believe.(Ph 1:29) And it is by Him we have access to the Father!

I do not know what else a person can do than hope for that child. When Paul deliberates upon this subject he concludes that it is God's mercy that ultimately saves us. (Rom 9:15) When Jacob and Esau were not yet born, God already so determined by the counsel of His own will their eternal destiny.(Rom 9:11, Eph 1:11)

If I were confronted by a mother who lost a baby, I would convey the same Hope to her that David expressed for his child. There can be no other source of comfort but divine compassion. "Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to the cross I cling."
..."what can wash my sin away...nothing but the blood of Jesus."


Jeptha

 

Jeptha, good post I agree with most everything with the possible exception of the part about confession being a byproduct. There is the blessed hope of our loving saviour that brings us peace. Amen.
Murph

 

Jeptha, finally someone on this thread I can agree with. Good post, and thank you for the majority-opposing view.