An apology bible codes???

Brother Dallas, Astrology of today is a corruption of something God gave the earth before Christ. If you have the time, I think the following three articles, two of which I co-wrote, and all of which my husband was involved with, might add some information for you:

http://www.setterfield.org/Abraham.htm
http://www.ldolphin.org/zodiac/index.html
http://www.ldolphin.org/birth.html

Some short facts taken from the above:

When God told Abraham to 'count' the stars in Genesis 15:4-6, the verb is not to 'count' but to 'recount' or 'tell'. There was something in the stars which would indicate something important to Abraham. And something he saw caused him to believe the Lord and it was counted to him as righteousness. Our righteousness is now and always in Christ. There was a prophecy of Christ in the stars.

That prophecy had to do with the signs of the zodiac. The star names, in every language, mean the same thing, and this is interesting, for whereas man named the animals, God named the stars (Isaiah 40). And the reason was that He had proclaimed the glory of the plan of salvation right there in the sky. This is also the meaning of Psalm 19, when it declares
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

Christ is the glory of God. That glory declared in the heavens has been corrupted. However, since we have Christ Himself now (Hebrews 1), it is also no longer needed.

As for the wise men, the were not magi. That also is a corruption of the original word "magoi", which was the entire upper house of the Persian parliament. It was they who came, along with their armed guards, to Jerusalem, and this is what frightened the entire city, for their own armed unit was out fighting one of Caesar's wars. Why had they come? They were Zoroastrian, and many years before an Israelite named Daniel had been promoted to the chief astrologer of the kingdom, and had taught them something about the coming of the King of the Jews, who would be King of the world. There was a special sign in the stars which would not be recognized by someone not aware of it. Look at the material in the third link and see what you think.

God bless.

 

I will read the articles Helen, thanks for posting them. I just want to say my post above was not intended to be a support of astrology. But that I do see typology in the OT and I do study this to show the Glory of God as revealed to the Jewish nation.

But, I am not an astrologist, palm-reader, nor do I play cards, or watch 'realistic' television.

Thanks for the post, but are you following me around just to disagree with me??? If so, then I think you should apologize. Oh, remember the "Hebrew Servant"? This is the typology I am talking about. I will look up that post and finally post what I believe/understand from that scripture. (If the Lord permits, within the next day).

God Bless All

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Well if you think I am disagreeing with you, I certainly do apologize! I am not into the occult in any way, shape, or form! I must admit I did watch one episode of American idol though when I was checking channels and heard some marvelous singing!

I think you will find all three articles totally Christian and God-honoring. Mostly we tried to deal with both Bible and history and what both seemed to be telling us. If we are wrong, please feel free to tell us!

 

If astrology in any form in any age was ever alright why did God say

Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." - Isaiah 47:13-14.


Or was He mistaken?
So where in scripture is our instruction to ignore this verse and do it in godly christian biblical way?

 

Katie, the astrologers God is talking about are those who use the stars for predictions regarding the lives of men. This is what is wrong. Our lives are in the hands of God. However we must pay attention to the fact that God DID tell Abraham to look at the story in the stars, or to recount it. The heavens DO declare the glory of God. The Magoi DID follow a heavenly sign to Bethlehem.

It is when we misuse what God has given us that we get in trouble. The stars were created by God and for God's glory.

In the same way that there are, biblically, those visions which are from God and those which are not does not mean we should call all visions some kind of psychic nonsense. Daniel was given dreams and interpretations. Both were from the Lord -- but those who count on dreams to lead them today are those we suspect have a few marbles loose.

We have Christ today. We have the Gospel. That is our clear message and the plumb line against which any possible dream or vision or anything else must be measured.

Please, read the articles and then see what you think, OK? Thanks.

Helen

 

One of the reasons that God created the stars was for the benefit of man.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years. (Gen 1:14)

The acted as a calender. I can look at my wall and know it is May 20, but early man didn't have this luxury. He knew by which stars were in the sky, when it was time to plant, and when it was time to harvest; when it was time to seek shelter from the impending cold, ect.

Love in Christ,
Larry

 

Yes Larry! I had said that earlier on another post! so glad you said it! Yes!!!!!!!!!!

Sherrie

 

Hi Sherrie, I was gonna post there (if it's the thread I think it is), but the thread was closed before I got the chance. I guess it's a sensitive issue.

Love in Christ,
Larry

 

God has said what His opinion is, no matter what form it takes, He has said no. Explain why He has said no if if's actually alright. Is God confused?

I haerd something interesting last night. I was watching a show on the history of horror movies(how they began, why and such info), so anyway one thing they said was interesting. They said that until a particular movie, or point in th history of the horror movies (and I forgot what movie it was named), that astrology was not widely beleived or accepted, it began to gain acceptabilty in the late 1960's when the occult began to become more publicly acceptable, uintl that point it was not a public thing, it was no widely acceptable becasue of it being from the occult world. What that means to me, which is part of the history of the occult, that no christiasn did not accept it, at least not openly, publically, it was a behind closed doors thing.

 

Found some interesting information on astrology.


History of astrology
http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/hand/history.htm

http://www.elore.com/Astrology/contents.htm

http://www.astroenergetics.com/HTML/History.html

John Ankerburg
http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/new-age/NA0701W1.htm

I just do not believe that my life, or any aspcet of it is being guided by stars adn planets. In that case they are in control and God is not.

A comparision between astrology and christianity
http://www.serve.com/exjw/astro.htm

Jesus/ astrologer, physic
death/reincarnation
sin/ignoance, or karma
morality/relative,amoral
man/one with the cosmos
final state/Cosmic absorption
object of faith/self


Dangers and warning against astrology
http://www.russpickett.com/basic/astro.htm


Sadly the occult is rampant, not just among pagans, but even among unsuspecting christians.

 

Don't mean to change the subject, but I was watching the History channel last night and there was a documentary on Las Vegas. These people justified gambling because in the OT lots were cast. Should we abandon the teaching of the truth of why lots were cast and how they were used simply because the carnal world finds in it a justification of gambling?

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Bro. Dallas,I have decided that there are two places that I need to stay away from, Wal-Mart , and C/A debate forums , because I come away from both with a five alarm migrane

 

Katie, I agree with you completely. Where we seem to disagree is that there are certain instances in which man has used the sky as a tool, which was provided by God. God created the universe with perfect precision. He did that for a reason, and part of the reason is the benefit of man. As I said earlier, Early man didn't have the benefit of a calender on the wall. He knew what time of year it was by the stars that appeared in the night sky. The same is true of sea captains. Early man didn't have the technology that we have today to determine their position on the sea, so he used the north star as a guide to know where he was. These things are not astrology. They are using the tools that God gave us in the way that He prescribed. Astrology is the belief that the stars have some sort of magical power to control man's destiny.

Obviously we don't need to use these things today, because we have the technology to determine location and time of year. If anything, I would think early man's way was more glorifying to God, because he depended on God's provision for these things, whereas today, we depend on man's technology.

I am in 100% agreement with you!

Love in Christ,
Larry

 

I agree

 

The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things...
Hebrews 1:3

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Psalm 19:1

If the Son is the radiance of God's glory, then there is something to do with the heavens themselves apart from being bright and sparkling.

He [God] took him [Abraham] outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Genesis 15:5

The word for 'count' there is 'sapar' or 'caphar'. It is a primary root meaning to score with a mark or to inform about, to tell, or to recount.

In referring to the incident with Abraham, Paul says in Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed", meaning one person, who is Christ.

We also read Abraham's response to God in Genesis 15:6
Abram believed the Lord, and he credited to him as righteousness.

In Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

So again we have the indication that there was something about believing in Jesus Christ, or, for Abraham, the coming Redeemer, in regard to 'telling' the stars.

And then, of course, there were the Magoi...

There is something else interesting here, in Luke 21:25, -- Jesus is speaking:
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars.

None of these things have anything to do with the occultic corruption we call astrology today. But please remember the actual word 'astrology' translates into 'star word' or 'the word about the stars.' I have no doubt that astrology before had two camps: godly and occultic. I also have no doubt that there is no such thing as 'godly astrology' as we know astrology today.

This does not deny, however, that God has used the heavens to point to Christ from the very beginning. My first introduction to this was Dr. Henry Morris' book The Biblical Basis for Modern Science. I had a hard time with it then, for I felt much as Katie does now. However, with study, I realized that God has indeed set the information the ancients could refer to every night of their lives in the stars themselves, so that no man has an excuse.

As Hebrews 1 says, though, In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Today we can look back to history, both secular and biblical. Christ is there. We have need of nothing else at all, since we have His words and the words of the eyewitnesses testifying about Him.

It should also be remembered that a distortion only shows that there was something that was originally true. The distortion of astrology into the occultic today is, by itself, evidence that there was something else earlier that was true.

Katie is right about the stars never being intended to tell man's future or guide or influence his life. That is never in doubt. The links she listed all have to do with the use or misuse of astrology today.

But long ago the astrologers were the scientists of their day. To be an astrologer, as Daniel was, was to know the stars and Scripture both (if one was Jewish). It was to understand the messages God had put in the heavens. It was because Daniel had taught the other astrologers of the time during the Captivity (he had been promoted to head astrologer) that it came down in their writings to the years when Zoroastrianism was again, for a short time, predominant in Persia. And so, following the ancient teachings of Daniel, the wise men -- the astrologers -- saw the signs in the stars which proclaimed the birth of the King of the Jews in Israel.

God's clear warnings regarding astrology in Isaiah and other places have to do with using it to try to foretell the lives of men. His warnings have nothing to do with His own use of the stars as messengers of His. In fact, it is precisely because they are messengers, and that the word 'angel' means 'messenger' that the stars themselves have been confused with the angelic host.

 

Helen, thank you fro reading the links to astrology. As the world see it(either right ro wrong) astrology is occoltic. What must they think if christians are involved?

 

uh oh, the Bible code topic is back. I really do not think the topic itself was causing the problem:
Just a couple of BB members who have bad blood between each other.
A shame considering that we should love each other and discuss/debate topics like true Christians.
I do not recall anyone resorting to name calling. However, there were strong opinions thrown around. I for one do not believe in Bible codes or looking for a sign in the stars. The only sign I needed happened 2000 years ago, Praise the Almighty Lord Jesus!!!

 

Not bad blood, but difference of opinion.

 

Christians absolutely should NOT be involved in astrology, Katie! You are totally right about that.

The point I wanted to make was that man's use of the stars and God's use of them are quite different. The other point is that God has used them in the past for our benefit. To acknowledge that is not sin; to try to replace Jesus Christ with them now most definitely IS! They pointed to Him. We have Him. Why go for the arrows when you can have the Destination?

 

Anything that is good can be perverted Katie. Perhaps when they see someone not using something falsely or abusively it makes for a good witness. I had a neighbor who was very much into the wordly definition of astrology. She knew my opinion on it, and my belief in the proper meaning of it didn't make her think anything apart from it causing discussion about God.

What would they think of a Christian reading a book that is labelled cultic and oppressive like the bible is?

What would they think of us teaching our children to talk and sing to an invisible higher power in the sky?

Until they can understand almost anything we do can be labelled wrong or insane or cultic or abusive. We should take some measures to not offend, but nowhere are we told not to believe in biblical concepts because of what others might think, or to hide what we know to be true so others won't think we're weird or crazy.

Gina