Does true salvation result in good works?

We are saved without good works, our salvation is maintained by Jesus without our works, and if we never did good works we'd still be saved. We do good works becasue we are saved, becasue of the new man, we are a new creation. We were saved for good works, not becasue of them, nor are we kept by them.

 

Yes. Works does not result in true salvation, but true salvation results in good works. Faith without works is dead. It is also through our works that our faith is seen.

When Jesus' analogies of his followers being "light of the world" and "salt of the earth" are indicative of works resulting from salvation.

On top of that, the epistles consistently tell us that, when it comes to matters of the Word, to be not just hearers, but doers.

 

I guess Jesus was wrong about the thief on the cross when he said the thief would be with him in paradise. The thief was not baptized, did not join a church, and did not read his Bible. What did he do AFTER his salvation...nothing, I think that is why his example is there.

Salvation is an eternal accomplished fact prior to ANY works being performed. Salvation WILL result in works given certain parameters such as time, training, teaching, descipling, etc. If a person says they have faith but has no works (to my knowledge) then I will have ZERO confidence in their salvation. How many works are necessary to qualify someone for "true saving faith"? What kind, and how often? Works are not the deciding factor. God's granting of salvation to that person is the deciding factor. He sees the heart and knows what kind of "faith" a person has. All we can do is make an evaluation as to the degree of response we see in that person. James makes it clear that faith will result in works. Paul makes it clear that salvation is apart from works. These are not contradictory. If you were on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you? Paul says God decides your "guilt" and James says that if you are "guilty" then the court of public opinion WILL have sufficient grounds to convict you.

 

It is logical to suggest that if a person has had the experience of accepting Jesus Christ as his Savior, then they will be keen to do good works, simply on the basis of the new person they now are who seeks to be like the example set by Jesus.

However the Salvation comes first as a free gift. cant be earnt.

 

Yes

 

Um... he didn't do anything because in just a short bit of time and being unable to move, he died. That might have something to do with it.

 

To answer the original question, good works must follow belief in Christ.

Kate and Johnv, I think what you said echoes more of the popular preaching and things you read on message boards than actual truth. Bear with me. Good works are part of God's saving plan with a person.

Person believes in Christ. He is eternally saved. He didn't earn it and he cannot work to keep it.

Now, this person does good works (by faith) and God is using it to sanctify him.

The good works that a Christian does are God's means of (final) salvation.

People are initially but not totally saved at the point of repentance and faith. If you still sin, you are not finally saved. Good works is used by God to sanctify a person and grow more Christ-like.

 

Yes. They have everything to do with my confidence level in their salvation. It is easy to compare a mature Christian with an unsaved person and see that their is a big difference and that the mature Christian is following in the Lord's footsteps. The difficulty comes when we look at the wide range of immature Christians. Some are 99% what they ought to be (nobody is 100%). 90% is prety easy, 60% a little harder and so forth. The tricky part is when we get down to the low %'s and someone is only 10%, or 1% and for all intents and purposes we can't tell that they are or aren't. The bible is crystal clear that salvation results in works but how many and how often and how strong makes it difficult for us to judge and that is why I am glad that only God can make the real decision on salvation and I am just limited to an opinion.

 

What I mean is that final salvation (glorification) does not happen at the moment when salvation begins (justification).

Saved. Being saved. Will be saved.

Good works fit into God's means of salvation for the "being saved" category. It is part of sanctification.

No amount of works can accomplish any of the three. All three are done by faith.

By faith you are saved.
By faith you are sanctified.
By faith you are glorified.

The reason I say works are included in the sanctification aspect is that the kind of faith that saves leads to good works. These good works are the opposite of sin. Btw, good works are not merely outward works. They include changes in attitudes and false ideas.

For a more thorough explanation, see "The race set before us: a biblical understanding of perseverance".

Remember, only those who compete according to the rules win the prize.

Finally, I totally reject charismania and catholic ideas on salvation.

 

PTW, are you saying that true salvation (the topic of this thread) does NOT result in good works? Since according to your explanation true (final) salvation does not take place until after a person dies. If salvation does not mean "I ain't goin' to hell", then, what in the world am I saved from? I am saved in order to do good works, because I can't do any before I am saved. All my righteousness is as filthy rags. I am not "going" to be saved (from Hell), I am not in the process of being saved (from Hell), the Bible says I am saved right now and then I can do good works. I am not saved from sin (not in this lifetime), I am not saved from the power of sin (not in this lifetime). I am save from the punishment of sin (in this lifetime) because that is what Jesus took on Himself, on the cross was my punishment. The thief on the cross was our example of immediate, final, definite, guaranteed avoidance of Hell, a guaranteed place in paradise in this lifetime (short as it was).

 

The thief did nothing?

Matthew 27:44 says those who were crucified with Jesus abused Him.

I believe Luke 23:39-43 refers to later in the day, when we see one thief still mocking Jesus, while the other realising he deserves his punishment and Jesus does not. He obviously recognises Christ's innocence "He has done nothing wrong", and His position as King as we see his last recorded words "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

The "what", "where", and "when" of that man's statement show that faith had already produced fruit. "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." What: He acknowledges Jesus as King. Even before the resurrection, it seems he knows that Christ will defeat death and come into His Kingdom. Where: This man spoke on the cross, now if that is not a work, nothing is. Speaking on the cross took a tremendous effort, even breathing was hard enough as suffocation was one way crucifixion claimed it's victims. When: As mentioned, obviously before the resurrection, yet seeming to be aware of the fact. Look at that man exercising the faith God gave him in the last hours of his life. We have 20/20 hindsight, we know Christ rose from the dead, yet here was this man seeing Jesus broken on the cross, and still knowing He will be the coming King.

I pray that God gives all His people the faith to work as that man did.

Pete

 

Preach,

"Saved, Being Saved, Will be Saved "

Sounds like you have been reading some Schreiner, Piper, and Hafemann. I don't think such things are terribly popular around these forums, where we like to see things in simpler equations. But it seems to me that Paul speaks of all three, with statements alluding to before the foundation of the world, the present, and being spared from future wrath and finnally receiving future glorification (can't wait myself). This to say, I agree with you. Of course, we are both Calvinists so we don't have to worry about confusing are present santification with our own doing or good works. It begins, is sustained, and will be completed by God and I will take 0.00000% credit for it at the end of the day! To God be the glory!

 

Ok, you all are starting to scare me. When I got saved at 19 (22 now). I changed totally. I wanted to go to church, and I wanted to get baptised. I was doing great with my fellowship with the Lord. Then about a year later I lost my fellowship with him and fell back in my old ways. Well now I am having a spiritual battle in my head. This sunday is the first day I will be back in church in a long time, but i'm excited and can't wait. Since I lost my fellowship, does that mean I was never truly saved in the first place, is that what everyone is saying?

 

The concepts are totally biblical. The solution is not to disguise correct terminology so that others feel more comfortable. The solution is through proper instruction and usage.

Consider Col. 1:22-23. Who are the saved people in that passage?