Age of Accountability--Biblical or Mythical??

I believe that we are all born in sin and trespasses, and all we need do to merit hell is nothing.

Having said that, David talks about seeing his dead son, the infant, in the beyond. The evidence points to David's salvation, so we must assume he is talking about seeing his infant son in heaven.

Early in ministry I was confronted with a loving couple who lost their infant child and they asked me directly where their child would be. I did not have time to rationalize an answer and my immediate response was: I believe that God's mercy and love was great enough to cover the sins of infants, up to the nebulous age of accountability, and they would, like David, see their infant child in glory.

After much study, I have not changed my view on this. Scripture to support it? None. There are some things in the Christian experience that go beyond my understanding, and I leave it at that.

There are some who can be very certain that they know the answer. I cannot do that, and I should imagine that I have studied the question as much as anyone.

This is not a definitive answer, but it is an answer....I rest my case with David's words.

Cheers,

Jim

 

For many of us, it is enough to know that Christ said of children, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of My Father which is in heaven. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost" (Matthew 18:10-11). And that "of such is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 19:14). These verses do not directly answer the question, but they imply that God will accept them. Though they are not "saved" in the sense that they have not had a conversion experience, yet they are "safe," for the blood of Jesus Christ is shed to cleanse their sin.

Do you any of you strong Calvinists place the salvation of an infant in terms of whether they are elect or not? Just wondering.

Jacob.

 

Jacob, as a five-point Calvinist, of course, I would include these infants under the category as elect from before the foundation of the world.

I go on to say, that these infants are a special case not covered by the norms we develop called theology. I think that there are some things that beg a definitive answer, but we will only know of certainty in glory.

I know that some will speculate and say, if they are elect and they live and continue in their sin, what of the elect? I answer, they did not live, they died...End of story. All the elect WILL be saved. These infants underwent the action of redemption, a secret act by God...our act is repentance and signs of deliverance, but it is God who redeems, is it not?

All of God or none at all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I just looked up this issue in RC Sproul's book, "Now that's a good question". He seems to say that only children of believer's would be saved. I know RC is a strong Calvinist - is this the typical belief of Calvinists?

Again, just wondering...

Jacob.

 

mankind exists in death. when Jesus went "into death". where did He Go...Planet Earth.
where did he come from...heaven.

He entered into what you and I call "life".
He calls "death".


Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


is anyone excluded from these statements of "all die" or "all dead" or "death passed upon all men".

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

"Age of accountability" is a myth..

Me2

 

Jacob, I would be somewhat hesitant if the infant were parented by unbelievers, but even then I would lean more to compassion. If I am deemed irrational in relation to theology, then I am prepared to be condemned by humankind. God is my judge and I shall answer to Him in the end, and my conscience in the interim. My conscience is clear.

You will find that many theologians tend to avoid this question, or they follow the Reformed concept of believers only. They would base this on the sprinkling of the infant and the covenant relationship all who are so sprinkled enjoy.

I was 21 years of age when this couple approached me. Fresh out of college and serving in my first pastorate. Let me ask this question: What would you have said to this sobbing couple who were grasping at straws for any hope. This loving Christian couple from whom I still receive correspondence. They have never forgotten the tenderness I shared with them, and they are dedicated believers and church workers in England.

After 57 years, I would behave the same, and without guilt of compromise.

Cheers,

Jim

 

As the apostle Paul taught in Romans 7, I believe we are spiritually alive until we become accountable for sin, and then we die and are in need of grace through faith. Prior to that we are covered by the atonement, as Paul wrote in Romans 5--the extent of Christ's atonement is the same as the extent of Adam's fall.

 

Jim, I would have given them hope. I would have given them this hope because I truly believe their child would be in heaven - see my first post in this thread.

I would not differentiate between an unbelievers child and a believers child.

Jacob.

 

I think John MacArthur wrote a book that covers this topic. "Safe in the arms of God"


mike

 

In all of scripture, there is not one instance of a person, either before or after the so-called age of accountability, being saved by making a decision for Christ. People, before birth/the age of accountability or as adults, are saved when they believe they are received into grace:

Also they teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for Christ's through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. Rom. 3 and 4.

That we may obtain this faith, the Ministry of Teaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments was instituted. For through the Word and Sacraments, as through instruments, the Holy Ghost is given, who works faith; where and when it pleases God, in them that hear the Gospel, to wit, that God, not for our own merits, but for Christ's sake, justifies those who believe that they are received into grace for Christ's sake.

Augsburg Confession, 1530

[ October 11, 2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]

 

John Gilmore, what do you make of 2 Samuel 12:23:

But now he is dead (the infant), wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

David can go to the dead infant. Does he mean simply that he will die also? That is hardly going to him. It would appear that this infant will benefit something more...salvation?

Cheers,

Jim

 

Hi everyone;
This thread has been an intresting read.

Wasn't Christ bar-miztvahed in the Bible?
For our lord to take part in celebrating of his comming of age. Shouldn't we assume that he wouldn't have done this if it wasn't proper?

The coming of age was the age of accountability
May God Bless You.
Mike

 

An important life cycle event for a young Jewish boy or girl is the Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah respectively. A boy is Bar Mitzvah when he reaches his thirteenth birthday, while girls are Bat Mitzvah when they are twelve. However, the girl's ceremony can be postponed to their thirteenth birthday as well. The literal meaning of Bar/Bat Mitzvah is "commandment age" or age of majority.
===============================================

Must confess, I never even thought about this Jewish ceremony.

Thank you and cheers,

Jim

 

I have a real hard time with using ANY of the words
and thoughts of David when considering this
subject. There are, that I know of, no other
Scriptures that back his conjectures, and that
leaves any conclusions drawn upon them on
extremely precarious ground.

As human beings, we seek comfort, we seek
answers, we seek reasoning, but as far as I know,
the Bible is silent on this issue, not giving a
supposed "age of accountability" or any
assurances. In my opinion, we know our God to
be sovereign and all-wise; therefore, while we
may speculate, this is an area of trust, and we must
trust Him to do the absolutely right and righteous
thing.

While we do bat (daughter) and bar (son) mitzvot
(covenant, command, instruction) at ages 12 and
13 (most of the time), this does not set a precedent
for any age of accountability.