Can a Person be a "Baptist" and not Immerse?

The very word "Baptist" states the Baptist position.

Baptist is a transliterated form of baptizo, which means "to dip or immerse."

Other words could have been used by the Holy Spirit. For example, "rantizo" (sprinkling) or "luo" (pouring).

Baptist = immersion. Plain and simple to me.

Rufus

 

That's funny...I grew up in Southern Baptist churches and was always taught (from our Sunday school books, etc.) that the water baptism is a symbol and not a means of salvation. And this was mainly in the 80's, when the fundamentalists were in control. I surely went through a long Christian journey before ever choosing to have a baptismal ceremony.

 

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Scotty,

He was in the earth. In resurrection, He was uncovered and came up out of the tomb. Baptism by immersion is almost a perfect symbolic picture of this.
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The Lord’s ressurection had occurred before he came out of the tomb as soon as he rose up from the burial slab.
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considering the testimonial aspect of baptism for early believers, sprinkling is inadequate. Baptism was intended as a public testimony. Sprinkling could easily be done in secret.
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Sprinkling can be done in public, Immersion can be done in secrete.
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The real test is what was the form of baptism established by the NT, 1st century Christians... and the evidence says it was immersion.
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True, the form of baptism established by the NT is what I meant by the early church. The evidence about it always being by immersion is very debatable.
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You make a connection that is not necessitated by a normal reading of the text. Immersion is no more nor less symbolic of crucifixion than sprinkling because that was obviously not the intent.
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Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Rom. 6:3

RO 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed

Being baptized into the death of Christ takes in more than just the burial and ressurection. It takes in all aspects of the process including the means of death, namely the crucifition.
We become identified with Christ when we receive the Holy Spirit. In this way we symbolically share all his passion, not just the burial and ressurction. Every thing the Lord suffered for us is symbolized by baptism.
Like I say sprinkling symboilzes our union with Christ through the receiving of the Holy Spirit, not by symbolizing the burial or the crucifiction.
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Baptism is not intended to picture the Holy Spirit.

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MT 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire

While staying with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait there for the promise of the Father. "This," he said, "is what you have heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.Acts 1:4-5

Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit

this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:AC 2:17 'In the last days it will be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,

having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you both see and hear Acts.2:33

And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as it had upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Acts 11:15-16

While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?

Since baptism does indeed picture the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, Peter had them baptized with water in order to symbolize what had already happened to them when they received the Spirit. Incidentally, Peter said, "Can anyone withold water". To me, that means that water was brought in for baptism instead of taking them to a pool.

 

jbarner and rufas,

True, immerse is one meaning of baptizo but it has other meanings as well. It could also mean to merse or unite with something. Even if the base meaning of the word is immerse, words can take on different connotations when adapted for use in a religious ceremony. The important thing is how it is used in the Bible. Notice that in Hebrews 9:10, the word divers washings in KJV translates "Baptismois" from the Greek using the same root as baptizo. This refers to the ceremonial cleansings carried out in the tabernacle where blood was sprinkled.

10 but deal only with food and drink and various baptisms, regulations for the body imposed until the time comes to set things right. NRSV

For if the blood of goats and bulls, with the sprinkling of the ashes of a heifer, sanctifies those who have been defiled so that their flesh is purified

21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship.

Also, remember how the pouring out of the spirit was considered a baptism in the book of Acts:
Acts.1:4-5; Acts 2:3,4,16,17,33; Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-48

 

Leonk said:

Shouldn't the use of a Word in the Bible determine its use in a religous ceremony? Context narrows the "connotation" intended in the text by the Holy Spirit.

It would surely be inconsistent to affirm that pouring, sprinkling, and immersion can be read into every textual and contextual use of the word "baptizo."

Rufus

 

Acts 8:
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

And they went down into the water, they did not dip water out of the river. The Holy Spirit is poured out, a drenching, not a sprinkling. We have washed our robes in the Blood of the Lamb, not sprinkled them with His Blood.

LeonK are you a Baptist?

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Profile for Leonk
Member Status: Junior Member
Member Number: 3509
Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 8
Location: Knoxville, TN
Occupation: Retired
Interests: Computer, Walking
My religion (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.) Please be specific.: Christian
Short personal statement regarding Jesus Christ (i.e.Jesus is my Lord): Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God and my Savior

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A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

Leonk, the more you say about baptism, the more curious I become. You said you were raised a Presbyterian. Were you baptized as an infant? And, if so, doesn't that also mean you think Baptists should accept infant baptism?

 

rufus said:
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Shouldn't the use of a Word in the Bible determine its use in a religous ceremony? Context narrows the "connotation" intended in the text by the Holy Spirit.
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Yes, that's the reason I stated that the most important thing is how the word is used in the bible, not how it was used in the greek secular world where it could mean immerse and other things as well. I wanted to show how just one meaning of a word should not determine what is meant in all situations where it is used. I gave many scriptures in the bible where it is used as a pouring.
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It would surely be inconsistent to affirm that pouring, sprinkling, and immersion can be read into every textual and contextual use of the word "baptizo."
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Very true and I don't claim that. That's an argument used by some in order to attempt to prove immersion.
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Leonk -

As you are not a Baptist, by posting in this forum you are violating the rules of this board.

http://www.baptistboard.com/postingrules.html

The Baptist Board is a private community established with the intent of allowing Baptists a website to communicate about issues pertinent to our denomination. Interdenominational forums are provided and we ask that you confine your posting to such.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

Cartaker said:

And they went down into the water, they did not dip water out of the river. The Holy Spirit is poured out, a drenching, not a sprinkling. We have washed our robes in the Blood of the Lamb, not sprinkled them with His Blood.
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I'm familiar with the story of Phillip and the eunuch. There is nothing that says Phillip did not dip water out of the stream. They could have both waded down into the stream where Phillip scooped a container down into the water and poured it on the eunuch's head. It is ofter stated in an attempt to prove immersion that the Lord and, in this case, the eunuch "came up out of the water". Here it says that both Phillip and the eunuch "came up out of the water" obviouslly
disproving the contention that "coming up out of the water" means that they were submerged in an immersion, unless Phillip baptized himself as well as the eunuch.
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The Holy Spirit is poured out, a drenching, not a sprinkling. We have washed our robes in the Blood of the Lamb, not sprinkled them with His Blood.
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I'm glad to aknowledge that the Holy Spirit is poured out. I know that we have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb, but the blood of the Lamb was indeed symbolized by sprinkling by the priests in temple worship where the sprinklings were called baptisms:
"This is a symbol of the present time, during which gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper, 10 but deal only with food and drink and various baptisms," Heb.9:9-10
"For if the blood of goats and bulls, with the sprinkling of the ashes of a heifer, sanctifies those who have been defiled so that their flesh is purified, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to worship the living God!"Heb. 9:12-13
"Moses in accordance with the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the scroll itself and all the people" Heb. 9:19

To answer your question, "Am I a Baptist" I much prefer to be know as a Cristian rather than Baptist, Presbyterian, or any thing else. I've been exposed to the teachings of both denominations and you can obviouslly see where my leanings are. At the present time my membership is in a Baptist Church. Do you think I shouldn't post here? That's perfectly all right.

 

rivaughn said:
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Leonk, the more you say about baptism, the more curious I become. You said you were raised a Presbyterian. Were you baptized as an infant? And, if so, doesn't that also mean you think Baptists should accept infant baptism?
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Well, I've been told I'm not supposed to post here which is perfectlly all right but I do want to answer your post since you asked me the question.
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Leonk, the more you say about baptism, the more curious I become. You said you were raised a Presbyterian. Were you baptized as an infant? And, if so, doesn't that also mean you think Baptists should accept infant baptism?
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No, I agree with what you said in your previous post," I do not agree with the idea of asking a person to give up their convictions in order to get along. That seems to be what you are asking of Baptists." It seems to me though that Baptists dissagree among themselves about things that are far more important than the mode of baptism and still stay intact. If a person is one hundred percent convinced that immerssion is the only form of baptism, then his convictions should certainlly be respected. It's just that i've heard Baptists say things like,well, "Presbyterians don't really care what the Bible says about Baptism, their just not interest in getting wet." or " Presbyterians havn't really been baptized or their not really obeying the Lord if they were not immersed. or "Presbyterians really know that immerssion is the right way to do it, they just don't want to practice it. To all of these misstaken beliefs, I just wanted to point out there is a scriptural case for sprinkling and pouring. Baptists are a Bible people and so are Presbyterians. Well, see you on the other board sometime.

 

http://www.abcog.org/immerse.htm

But he finds the record of our Lord's own baptism; that it was in the river Jordan; that after his baptism he came up out of the water. Does some one feel like interrupting me here to say that, literally, it is "came up from the water" (Matt. 3:16)? I answer, that is true in Matthew; but in Mark, according to the correct Greek text, it is "out of" (Mark 1:10). And in Matthew, while the word "from" does not itself show that he had been in the water, it does not at all show that he had not; and the connection makes it so plain that he had, that the versions of Tyndale, Cranmer, Geneva, and King James all render "out of." The expression is like "Let me cast out the mote from thine eye," and the statement in Tobit that "a fish leaped up from the river and wished to devour the lad." So our friend is not misled by his English Bible as to this expression.

He finds also that when John, after long baptizing in the Jordan, left it for another place, he went to Aenon, "because there was much water there" (John 3:23). In reading Acts, he finds that when Philip was about to baptize the eunuch they went down into the water (Acts 8:38-9), and after the baptism they came up out of the water. In reading Romans 6:4, he finds the apostle likening baptism to a burial, and arguing that believers must not and cannot continue in sin that grace may abound, seeing that their very baptism, at the beginning of their Christian course, had reference to the death of Christ, and they were buried with Christ by baptism unto death, in order that, as Christ was raised from the dead, even so they also might live a new life.

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Baker's Evangelical Dictionary
of Biblical Theology

Baptize, Baptism

The Greek root-word baptizein [baptivzw] means to plunge, immerse, sink; hence to wash; to be immersed, overwhelmed (in trouble). From Jewish rules of purification concerning ritual uncleanness the word gained a technical religious connotation implying "purification" from all that might exclude from God's presence.

When, at the diaspora, numerous Gentiles sought admission to Israel, the required public repentance and acceptance of Mosaic Law was accompanied by immersion in water, symbolizing and effecting religious, moral, and ritual cleansing from the defilements of paganism. Ancient Jewish discussions (echoed in 1 Cor 10:2) support a pre-Christian date for this proselyte baptism. This is why John's baptism needed no explanation, though his authority to perform it was challenged and his demand for purification of "children of Abraham" gave deep offense (Matt 3:7-9; John 1:19-24).

John's practice added to proselyte baptism a still stronger emphasis on repentance, a firm background of moral teaching (Luke 3:3,10-14,33), and initiation into a community ("John's disciples") preparing for Messiah's advent (Luke 3:16-17).

The rite gained yet deeper meanings and greater authority from Jesus' example and experience. Why Jesus, being sinless, received a "baptism of repentance" is debatable. Some think Jesus was already aware of his role as Servant-Messiah, "numbered with the transgressors" (Isa 53:12). But Mark 1:10-11 shows that assurance was finally given to him, in words from Psalm 2:7 and Isaiah 42:1, when he came up out of the water. Since Jesus held John's movement and practice to be "from heaven, " to identify himself with it was an act of "righteousness" which it was "fitting" to fulfill (Matt 3:15; 21:25).

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As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Baptize is by immersion, and regardless of how the traditions of man attempt to twist and pervert scripture, the early Church practiced Believers Baptism by immersion.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

Something good can come out of Kansas, huh!

Good Posts, Caretaker.

Rufus

 

Something good can come out of Kansas, huh!

Good Posts, Caretaker.

Rufus

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Besides Tornados, Toto, and Dorothy

Thank you Brother Rufus.

I have some family in Russellville,AR, but one can't seem to see the hills for all the trees...

God bless you Brother, and your webpage is superb.

A servant of Christ,
Drew