Ezekiel 39:21-29

In my opinion, no it hasn't been fulfilled.

 

my opinion is that when that verse says ALL the heathen will see his judgment it means they will both see it and will be unable to deny that it is the judgment of God

(like they do today).

 

Sure, this was fulfilled. God judged Israel by sending them into captivity.

So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. [/QUOTE]

Again, obviously fulfilled in the captivity

Therefore thus saith the LORD God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. [/QUOTE]

Again, obviously fulfilled in the return from captivity. All of God's faithful remnant returned to their land with new resolve to worship God.

Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the LORD God. -Ezekiel 39:21-29 [/QUOTE]

This is the only difficult part of the passage. Did God in some way pour out His Spirit on the returning remnant. Probably so. There was a sense of spiritual revival under Ezra and Nehemiah.

So what's the point? I presume it's all about the passage that immediately follows (40-48). Futurists are convinced it's all about a millenium to come, so they can't admit to the historical setting of the passage above. Correct?

Tim

 

In my opinion, no it hasn't been fulfilled. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Brother npetreley -- Preach it!

 

Tim: "So what's the point? I presume it's all about the passage that immediately follows (40-48). Futurists are convinced it's all about a millenium to come, so they can't admit to the historical setting of the passage above. Correct?"

Correct! Why you are beginning to sound
like a futurists yourself
Yes, there will be a literal/physical
Millennial Kingdom of our blessed Lord
and Savior: Messiah Jesus -- right after
the literal/physcial Tribulation Period
of 7-years length. The MK is described
in Zeke 40-48.

 

Some further explanation might make this clearer

"And I will set my glory (Israel) among the heathen (into Babylon), and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them (Israel)."


God is saying here that the heathen will see God's judgement upon Israel. Then He proceeds to show that Israel will acknowledge their sins and repent before He brings a remnant back.

This is all history! Sure we can say it's double-fulfillment if we need to to fit our theological bias. But the text gives no indication of it.

In Christ,

Tim

 

So then you apparently believe that in the future, God will have mercy on 100% of all Jews alive at that time.

But wait, I thought the Antichrist was a Jew ...

Anyway, please explain another quandry-- To be saved then, how much Jewish blood must be flowing through your veins?

And I thought we were "one body" in Christ--"no difference" between Jew and gentile anymore. Or do we defer to "literal" interpretation of O.T. prophecy at the expense of N.T. theology?

Tim

 

Ezekiel 39 fulfilled? Nope.

Not unless you can prove Ezekiel 38 has been fulfilled already, too.

 

Sorry PB,

Apparently I misjudged your beliefs.

However, God DID have mercy on the whole house of Israel. ALL were released from their captivity (according to Cyrus's decree) and allowed to return to their homeland if they so desired. But only a faithful remnant did so.

So as I stated before, this is all history now.

Do you believe that in the future the vast majority of Jews (of whatever blood percentage) will return to Israel--rather than just a remnant of the faithful? As of now, there are still more Jews living in New York State than in Israel.

Tim

 

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

He did not deny it would happen but just that "it is not for you to know the times or the seasons".

In fact, Jesus confirmed that one day the kingdom would be returned to Israel by answering His disciples that it was not for them to know when it would happen.
He could have simply said "it will not happen".

As far as I am concerned the Ezekiel passage has not yet been fulfilled.

HankD

 

Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-27, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

I say, then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. -Romans 11:11 </font>[/QUOTE]Paul is saying that God didn't forsake Israel when most Jews rejected Christ (during His ministry). This happened in order to open the door of salvation to the gentiles. But even when the church became full of gentiles, God was still saving Jews. How? As it was written--by their Deliverer!

The little phrase "so all Israel shall be saved ..." (so often quoted out of context) is not a prophecy--but a statement of obligation which points to their only hope, i.e. Israel shall be saved--not by being Jewish--but by the Deliverer.

Paul's bottom line here is simply that both Jews and gentiles must be saved by Christ. He is yearning that God would open the eyes of his countrymen so they could see this great gospel truth, and trusting God that He will have mercy on his Jewish brethren.

It's a glorious passage which leaps into an even more glorious conclusion. I'm sorry so many can only read it looking for verification of their prophetic views about the future.

In Christ,

Tim

 

Hank,

You can't prove a point by something that Jesus DIDN'T say. He merely did not explain the kingdom to His disciples (again) because they were still asking the wrong questions. They needed the Holy Spirit to understand better what the kingdom was all about. And Pentecost was right around the corner.

In Christ,

Tim

 

Post Acts Chapter 2, Given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Brother Tim , this is not a rebuff, just my view of the Scripture concerning the restoration of the physical Nation of Israel.

I respect your view as I hope you do mine.

HankD

[ September 22, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

HankD,

I realize you consider the "fulness of the gentiles" to be a time yet future. You could say I respect people who hold that view--I do. But the view itself, I disgree completely. I think it's rooted in dispensationanlism's formula for understanding Biblical prophecy--a formula that just doesn't hold up IMHO.

The fulness of the gentiles came in as the church filled up with gentiles and thus lost it's distinctly Jewish flavor--an important development which the N.T. chronicles.

In Christ,

Tim