50 Passage Challenge

T.U.L.I.P. · Jul 22, 2003

I am working on my list of 50 right now and as I am terribly busy with many things such as job, college, and other things please forgive me if you have to wait very long.

BobRyan · Jul 24, 2003

Ok - I look forward to them.

And while I wait....

Just two quick points. The first one - is about the Caring, Grieving Loving God who "is" concerned about the wicked that reject Him.

(Quoting me here)

God grieves over the lost "AS IF" He cared about them at all – is He merely “pretending”?

We know that He DOES already know the end from the beginning - why does He grieve? What does "grieving" tell us about God?

What does Grieving over the lost tell us about God's "concern" and "care" for them?

What does it mean for him to say that "HE CAME to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received HIM NOT" - is there EFFORT, concern, ACTION, WORK being claimed on God's part?

Let's take a closer look.

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Revew: God's Will for mankind…. Yes Really!

2Peter 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, "" Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.''
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.>>

The SCOPE is Global - the WORLD that was destroyed included ALL. The wicked are accusing God of not being able to DESTORY the SAME world He ALREADY destroyed ONCE by a flood. The DESTRUCTION and LOSS of life IS NOT LIMITED to the safety/fate of the ALREADY SAVED. The future destruction is GLOBAL - and will affect ALL left on the PLANET.

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

The focus is this great list of UNGODLY men that will be destroyed IF God simply shows up on the spot - at that moment and the UNGODLY have no more chance to TURN to God and BE saved. This is again - the obvious part. The text is NOT concerned that the ALREADY SAVED require some delay - but the CURRENTLY LOST need MORE TIME because as it is now - they are already TOAST so he delays.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

In this case the "YOU" that is mentioned ARE among those that USED to be LOST but have been BENEFITED by the DELAY already so far. The texts points to the fact that GOD HIMSELF anticipates that MORE of the LOST to BENEFIT by MORE delay since that is the REASON HE GIVES for the DELAY. (Or more SEAMING delay).

God's WILL for mankind is abundantly clear here - and those who reject this truth about God must find a way to "limit the atonement" AND "limit this statement on His will".
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God expends EFFORT to SAVE them - HE SENDS them messages of warning and salvation. At GREAT cost and sacrifice.

Matt 23:31“So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32“Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
34“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36“Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39“For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”

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God's PURPOSE FOR THEM is savlation - but they reject it. God portrays Himself as WORKING for their salvation AND YET they turn.

Luke 7:28“I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” 29When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30But the Pharisees and the £lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
31“To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? 32“They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’ 33“For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34“The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

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When God weeps and grieves over the lost - He is not simply pretending so we will be duped into "thinking" He loves them and works for their salvation, when in fact He cares nothing at all for our children and loved ones that are “not elect”.

Luke 19:41When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43“For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.

Gen 6:5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Parable of the Landowner

Matt 21:33“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. 34“When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. 35“The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. 36“Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. 37“But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” 41They said* to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”
42Jesus said* to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,
AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’?

2Cor 5:18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Isaiah 63:So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the angel of His presence saved them;
In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them,
And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled
And grieved His Holy Spirit;
Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy,
He fought against them.

Hosea 11:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Ezek 18:20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
24“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? 26“When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. 27“Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. 28“Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29“But the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. 31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? 32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

Jer 32:31“Indeed this city has been to Me a provocation of My anger and My wrath from the day that they built it, even to this day, so that it should be removed from before My face, 32because of all the evil of the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah which they have done to provoke Me to anger—they, their kings, their leaders, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33“They have turned their back to Me and not their face; though I taught them, teaching again and again, they would not listen and receive instruction. 34“But they put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. 35“They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Eph 4:26 BE ANGRY, AND YET DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. 29Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven £you.

Click to expand...

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Jul 24, 2003

And then of course - my last and final post -

God calling mankind go exercise choice --

Now let's review a few scriptures as they speak of the Arminian Bible's view of God.

It is obvious that instead of scripture merely reporting curious results of God's capricious choosing - we find actual appeals to choice.

In language where some people hope that man is nothing more than a pawn -- Scripture clearly shows the appeal to Choice is “serious”. Not a bland "report" of static facts, we see strong "APPEALS" to choice. Not merely showing “what was going to happen anyway whether you choose it or not”, not passive “reporting” but “active choosing”.

Deuteronomy 30

10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Here Moses appeals to choice based on the carrot - "the good" that will result from choosing correctly. Moses argues that it is not too difficult and the benefits are compelling -- so choose the right path.

(in every case such as the above many hope to re-work this same language so that it is construed as "if you happen to be one of those that god happens to make his own then good things will be happening".)

15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;
16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.

Here again Moses sets two paths, two courses of actions and appeals to choice - to choose the correct path "so that the lord your god may bless you". This form of "appeal" is used by teachers to students, parents to children, employers to employees. In every course of life Calvinists themselves use it as the classic form of appeal to choice.

17 "But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it.
19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

Here we have the very appeal "so choose" - explicitly stated right in the text. Showing that all these previous forms "if you do A then B will be the results" are in fact appeals to choice -- "so choose" the right course of action.
Click to expand...

In Christ,

Bob

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