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Matt. 19:9 - Remarriage allowed?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pastork, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. Pastork

    Pastork New Member

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    I agree, RLVaughn.
     
  2. Pastor Chet

    Pastor Chet New Member

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    Maybe a thesis on humility versus arrogance and pride would be good. He who thinks he knows as he ought to know, knows nothing. Then again most Scholors are just as lost today as they were in Jesus' time. Higher education will never replace true education ,which comes from sitting at Jesus' feet in humility ,with an attitude of learning which the Holy Spirit honors. He will lead and guide us in Truth.
    chet
     
  3. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Actually I am just trying to get you to cite one respectable scholar who supports your view. It seems so simple a request.

    There is something fundamentally erroneous about this statement. [​IMG]

    If I stand to preach and espouse a view that is rejected by the majority of evangelical scholars, yes I had better re-examine my position. Since I live in 2003, I must recognize there is a history of interpretation that precedes me. As Paul indicates, we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us.

    BTW, do you believe John Piper is merely building his arguments based upon emotion? He differs from your view.

    All the while recognizing that when I study and teach on debatable issues where evangelical scholars disagree, I could be wrong.

    Your attitude is the exact one that led to the demise of people like Hyles. You simply pick different issues upon which to be absolutely dogmatic and dismiss as trivial those you do not think are important (such as KJVO). Do you embrace the "relativism" of which you accuse others?
     
  4. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    You can read my book ;)
     
  5. rufus

    rufus New Member

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    A clear reading of the following verse (which began this discussion) would be illuminating:

    NKJ Matthew 19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."


    rufus :)0)
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Are you always this sloppy with citing your sources? Did you mean John MacArthur?
     
  7. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    If this admonition is directed at me, you need to read more of my posts before you write. Most often I am the one who refuses to jump to dogmatic assertions on non-essentials. I hold my position and believe it, but at the same time recognize there are those far wiser and more exegetically capable who differ from me. For that reason, I constantly evaluate my own positions.

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


    Your words say a lot about you. Paul was one of the greatest scholars of his time.

    And most often that guidance comes through diligent study.

    No one who professes the name of Jesus Christ and claims to believe the Bible is God's truth should belittle the pursuit of knowledge.
     
  8. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Nope. Piper and MacArthur differ from you. And I am speaking about more than just the "no remarriage" camp.

    Still waiting for those sources ...
     
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    1. I am in the no remarriage camp. What are you talking about?

    2. You are not going to get them. If interpretation is something you want to do, I will join. If you want to merely discuss the intelligence of those we agree with the most, then forget it.

    SBC, if you can't handle an interpretation debate...
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    I agree. I don't know who the previous post was addressed to, but why is learning such an evil to some people? Some people think that sitting in the living room with a couple of other people and having a Bible study is somehow better than those who go to school. :rolleyes:

    SBC, I will also say this, I disagree with all the profs I had at Luther Rice as well. Some of the other faculty agree with me. So, I was actually taught differently than what I now believe.
     
  11. Pastork

    Pastork New Member

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    Daniel David,

    I am still waiting for your reply to my post on page 2, dated April 29, 2003 03:05 PM. Did I miss your response somewhere? I am interested in hearing your arguments more fully, for I am not sure how you can argue that Jesus' statements in Matt. 5:31-31 and Matt.19:9 are not binding upon us as Christians, although this seems to be your position. Could you respond to the post mentioned above with the requested explanation?

    Pastork
     
  12. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    There are many variants within this camp. I am assuming these variants are operating from emotion as well since they differ from you??

    That's what I thought ... no support behind the claims. A little more advice: when you write a paper on the doctoral level, you had better be able to defend your views with scholarly support.

    Perhaps when I am not having to spend so much time in other arenas on this subject. My view on this subject fits within an overall paradigm and theology of marriage, therefore, it would be difficult for me to discuss in a forum format the many related issues on this subject.

    I don't want my entertainment to cross lines with my study and writing. :D


    In my best Jack Nicholson voice, "I can handle it."
     
  13. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    [​IMG]

    I respect your willingness to think outside of your profs. My position is also different than what I was taught from my closest mentors. This issue became of interest to me when I realized its incredible impact upon the life of the local church. I have avoided all the discussions on BB regarding the issue in the past simply b/c I have spent so much academic time on the matter. It is hard to discuss all the issues involved in this format. And I am serious when I say BB is for entertainment purposes only.

    I reacted to your accusation that those who are not in your camp are acting out of emotion. I think this is a faulty accusation based upon the exegetical abilities of many in the majority camp.

    I have no qualms about Luther Rice. Some of the SBC godfathers have DMin degrees from there. I am not sure who is even on their faculty. I am sure it is a good school.

    Where do you plan to pursue your PhD?
     
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Send me a copy and I will; I'm always reading authors with whom I don't agree! [​IMG]
     
  15. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    It is undecided as of now. I am working on my Masters in Arts degree with an emphasis in Biblical Languages at Tyndale Theological Seminary. I might get my Ph.D. through them. I would actually love to get it at Southern or Southeastern. My ultimate goal is the Th.D. At the very least though, I want a Ph.D. Of course, this assumes that money is not an issue. Nothing like more schooling to wipe out your savings, right?
     
  16. Pastork

    Pastork New Member

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    Daniel David,

    Previous Post #1

    posted April 29, 2003 03:05 PM

    Daniel David,

    I don't think I can agree that Jesus was only giving His own interpretation of Moses over against the interpretation of the Pharisees in Matt. 5:31-32 without intending His own interpretation to be followed by us. This seems, however, to be your position, and I would ask how you have arrived at it. For example, in the previous two "you have heard that it was said...but I say to you" pericopes, Jesus had referred to the OT commands not to commit murder (5:21-26; see Ex.20:13;Deut.5:17) and not to commit adultery (5:27-30; see Ex.20:14;Deut.5:18), and in both cases had given His own emphatic instruction concerning these commands. Would you argue that we should not see these emphatic statements as binding because He was giving His own interpretation over against that of the Pharisees? Would I be guilty of desiring "to live under Moses" (as you earlier put it) if I saw myself as obligated not to hate my brother or lust after a woman in my heart? If not, on what basis do I not see Jesus' similar statement regarding divorce as also binding upon me as a Christian? And, of course, Jesus' understanding still does allow for divorce in the case of porneia.

    Previous Post #2

    posted May 01, 2003 01:53 PM

    Daniel David,

    I am still waiting for your reply to my post on page 2, dated April 29, 2003 03:05 PM. Did I miss your response somewhere? I am interested in hearing your arguments more fully, for I am not sure how you can argue that Jesus' statements in Matt. 5:31-31 and Matt.19:9 are not binding upon us as Christians, although this seems to be your position. Could you respond to the post mentioned above with the requested explanation?


    Present Post

    You seemed anxious to enter into a debate with SBCbyGRACE (although he wouldn't oblige you), yet you haven't bothered to answer just this one question from me. Why won't you give an answer? How can I understand your position accurately if you won't even explain it to me?

    Pastork
     
  17. Ms.Lumi

    Ms.Lumi New Member

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    I praise God for his truths! "Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the Lord hath spoken." (Jeremiah 13:15) I praise the Lord for Boldness of his children to speak HIS TRUTH.

    Thank you ISTHERENOTACAUSE!
    __________________________________________________

    "O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jeremiah 10:23


    "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
    (Jeremiah 29:13)

    __________________________________________________


    Your sister in Christ!
    Ms.Lumi
     
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