Syllogism - is it valid?

What would be your exegesis on 1 John 2:2 / "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.?"

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I tend to think of it as a parallel to Rev. 5:9--whole world is men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation...

Originally posted by russell55:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What would be your exegesis on 1 John 2:2 / "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.?"

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I tend to think of it as a parallel to Rev. 5:9--whole world is men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation... </font>[/QUOTE]Bless your heart, Russell55, my spirit has been dwelling on this scripture, knowing that I had read it at least twice before, but my mind did not make the connection to the specified reference.

But one must not stop at verse 9 because verse 10 brings to light the purpose of those in verse 9. One cannot be a king without a kingdom, or a priest without a 'church' so if one wants to claim that those in verse 9 are the elect, then one cannot claim that "only the elect are saved" because if verse 9 is the elect, then who do the kings rule, who are the priests priests for? There must be many many others who are not "the elect" who are saved.

But one must not stop at verse 9 because verse 10 brings to light the purpose of those in verse 9. One cannot be a king without a kingdom, or a priest without a 'church' so if one wants to claim that those in verse 9 are the elect, then one cannot claim that "only the elect are saved" because if verse 9 is the elect, then who do the kings rule, who are the priests priests for? There must be many many others who are not "the elect" who are saved.

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5:9 They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed,
and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation.

5:10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

This is all believers, Yelsew. We're all purchased for God. And we're all part of the kingdom, and every one of us is a priest:

2:4 So as you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but chosen and priceless in God’s sight, you yourselves as living stones are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood and to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ....... But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You once were not a people, but now you are God’s people. You were shown no mercy but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2:4-10)

We are all God's people and members of the kingdom. Christ is the King, and we are all royalty because of our relationship with Christ--we are all brothers and sisters of the King. We are also part of the priesthood--a ROYAL priesthood.

Because of the once-for-all-time sacrifice of Christ, every one of us can confidently approach the throne of grace. We no longer need priest to approach and offer sacrifices for us, we can boldly enter the Holiest ourselves, with our own sacrifices of thanksgiving. We can present our own bodies as living sacrifices as our service to God. Peace has been established and each one of us has access to God.

Hiya Me2

I, for one, am glad that your porch light is on AND you're home as well. LOL

Thank you for so boldly portraying the glorious gospel, brother. May HE bless you abundantly in your quest to bring truth to His people.

YOU ARE LOVED!

GH

Hiya Yelsew

Thanks for answering my questions so faithfully. I appreciate your view and interpretation of the scriptures for I once believed as you did.

My thought of being struck down comes from the scriptures that tell of Paul's conversion. He was stuck down by Christ. It is a GOOD thing.

Paul is the pattern (he said it himself) for those who come to believe. I meant the term only in that way. Oh Paul had faith in God, alright.....but none in CHRIST. It took a powerful move of the Spirit to bring that to his heart.

Well.....until we meet again, may God bless you richly,

GH

Originally posted by GH:
Hiya Yelsew

Thanks for answering my questions so faithfully. I appreciate your view and interpretation of the scriptures for I once believed as you did.

My thought of being struck down comes from the scriptures that tell of Paul's conversion. He was stuck down by Christ. It is a GOOD thing.

Paul is the pattern (he said it himself) for those who come to believe. I meant the term only in that way. Oh Paul had faith in God, alright.....but none in CHRIST. It took a powerful move of the Spirit to bring that to his heart.

Well.....until we meet again, may God bless you richly,

GH

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As Saul, Paul did not know who Jesus is! He was righteously guarding the status quo of Judahism. He was a zealot of his faith! A religious person. Jesus introduced himself in a rather abrupt manner to Saul and made Him a believer in a fashion that is rarely if ever repeated. I know of no one in my six decades who has had a similar experience to that of Paul. That is not to say that I know of no devout Christians, because my life is full of devout Christians all with wonderful testamonies of how they came to KNOW Jesus as their savior. Some of them were in pretty dire straights, at least three of them very near death's door when they were confronted with the Gospel message and believed in Jesus, my own father being one of them. Virtually every one of the Christians in my life are Christian because they heard the word of God and believed. Then they changed their behavior in accordance with the change in their persuasion, by believing the instructions contained in the Word of God.

Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believed! Have you ever noticed the whole message of Jesus is "believe", "believe", "believe". It is only after one believes that Jesus says "do", "do", "do".

QUOTE]As Saul, Paul did not know who Jesus is! He was righteously guarding the status quo of Judahism. He was a zealot of his faith! A religious person. Jesus introduced himself in a rather abrupt manner to Saul and made Him a believer in a fashion that is rarely if ever repeated. I know of no one in my six decades who has had a similar experience to that of Paul. That is not to say that I know of no devout Christians, because my life is full of devout Christians all with wonderful testamonies of how they came to KNOW Jesus as their savior. Some of them were in pretty dire straights, at least three of them very near death's door when they were confronted with the Gospel message and believed in Jesus, my own father being one of them. Virtually every one of the Christians in my life are Christian because they heard the word of God and believed. Then they changed their behavior in accordance with the change in their persuasion, by believing the instructions contained in the Word of God.

Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believed! Have you ever noticed the whole message of Jesus is "believe", "believe", "believe". It is only after one believes that Jesus says "do", "do", "do". [/QB][/QUOTE]


Dear Yelsew,

I didn't mean that one has to actually see Him, silly. I mean in the Spirit a believer sees and believes. I have no doubt that you and your friends have seen and believed and I praise Him for it. Where we differ is how the belief comes.

I also heard the word (scripture) and believed. But I would venture to say that NOT ALL OF GOD'S WORDS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN DOWN. And......certainly not all of His words have been interpreted alike. But yet, in the Spirit, the important words mean the same to all believers.

As believers, imo, we should be trying to find those same words - the words that the Spirit speaks to us - and be one in Him. For this is what He prayed on the night before He died. That they be one, Father, as You and I are one, He said.

You believe that you must by faith be saved and sanctified - I believe that it all begins and ends with God's salvation and sanctification of His creation. Yet we both love Him. I think that is all that matters.

We have been blessed......may we be a blessing to others.

In Christ,

Diane

You believe that you must by faith be saved and sanctified - I believe that it all begins and ends with God's salvation and sanctification of His creation. Yet we both love Him. I think that is all that matters.

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When does Salvation actually occur in the individual? Is it while man remains "in the flesh" mean living in the natural body that results from procreation, or does salvation come after man has departed from this body of flesh?

Many say that salvation occurs the instant one believes.
Some say that Salvation occurs at the instant of "God's regeneration of man".
Some say no one can be saved except they be predestined to be saved.

If man is saved while man is still in the flesh, then what is the purpose of faith?
If we are saved why do we need "the substance of things hoped for"?
What do we hope for if we are already saved?

Faith is also "the evidence of things unseen". It is our faith that discloses what we hope for that we cannot see.

Why, after we 'have been saved', are we constantly tested? If it is for 'refinement' or 'purification', then we are not "already saved", but instead, we are just being prepared to be saved.

I believe that it is our own willing faith that "marks us" for salvation. It is our individual willing Faith that sets us apart (Sanctifies us) from the unbelievers. It is the mark of faith by which the sheep are separated from the goats in Revelation.

Now what is it that we have faith in while living this natural life? It is the hope that the Eternal Life promised is waiting for us when we depart this natural life. It is the hope that what we believe to be true is actually true. It is the hope that our faith is wisely invested and that our actions based on our faith are pleasing to the object of our faith.

Scriptures reveal that our salvation is a promise, and for that reason we must have faith! It is while we have faith that we are "regenerated" into the saints of God.