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Partial Preterism: A doctrinal smokescreen for the future harlot system?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gavin, Mar 1, 2003.

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  1. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Saints,

    Evangelicals who know their Bible are quite familiar with the future Antichrist. They know that he will be especially nasty during the second half of the 70th week, after the abomination of Desolation and during the last half of the final 7 years of this age. When we ask what is going on in the first half of the 70th week it seems we draw a blank.

    Here is the article addressing the harlot system of the endtime who will exercise global rule over the beast for the first half of the 70th week. Now in recent years we have had a powerful emergence of partial preterism saying, no, the first half of the 70th week is old history. Don't worry about it. Jesus fulfilled it. They have to seriously wrench the hermeneutics to make Jesus the 'prince' of Dan. 9:26 who make the 7 year covenant with the "many" in Dan.9:27. But that doesn't seem to be a problem. Most Christians are "following the (charismatic) leader" and are not paying much attention to scripture unfortunately.

    In the following article we see that this partial preterism is really just a smokescreen for "someting" that will happen in that first half of the 70th week, something that the harlot spirit herself doesn't want us evangelicals to know. But John the Apostle saw her quite clearly. And he told us about her in detail. He was a prisoner on the Island of Patmos when he had the vision. Shall we turn our eyes to what John saw?

    Dear saints. This information may not be always available. Time may be shorter than we imagine. So please have a close look here and check every thought that is presented with your open Bible. May God bless all who open the Book of Revelation with an open heart and an open mind to submit themselves to Christ.

    http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks9.htm

    And here is an article on the ten horned beast of the New World Order. The endtime beast is not boxed up in Europe. Like the old Roman Empire it will have worldwide reach since our 'world' is now global.

    http://endtimepilgrim.org/tenhorns.htm

    Grace and peace to all who love His appearing,

    Gavin
     
    #1 Gavin, Mar 1, 2003
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Why is the prince is verse 25 not the same prince in verse 26?
     
    #2 Grasshopper, Mar 1, 2003
  3. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Gavin,

    Why are your titles so hostile? We Amils and Partial-Prets aren't all that bad!

    In Christ (not Antichrist),

    Tim
     
    #3 Tim, Mar 1, 2003
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Baptists have historically been able to avoid making eschatology a fellowship issue and to avoid using it to doubt the sincerity and intelligence of fellow Baptists and other Christians.

    I hope that is not changing. :(
     
    #4 KenH, Mar 1, 2003
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Are you looking for the harlot?... Try Ezekiel 16 and there she is in her full glory!... That is scriptural... biblical... and truthful... because God named her not us... She is the Mother of all harlots... She is Jerusalem!

    Matthew 23: [29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

    [30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

    [31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

    [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    [33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    [34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

    [35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    37: O Jerusalem... Jerusalem... Thou that killest the prophets... and stonest them that are sent unto thee... how often would I gathered thy children together even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not!

    38: Behold your house is left unto you desolate.

    Gavin examine it and come to your own conclusion... These amil partial preterist saint have already! [​IMG] ... In Jesus Christ!... Brother Glen :cool:
     
    #5 tyndale1946, Mar 1, 2003
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Historic fundamentalism (1895 Niagara Conference) taught the literal Second Coming of Christ. They allowed for a great diversity for those who were pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. They made allowance for dispensationalism as well as covenant views of eschatology.

    (Of course they all thought preterism was heresy) :eek: :eek:

    Nah, they probably would have accepted that view, too. Remember, there were not just Baptist fundamentalists, but Presbyterian fundamentalists, Methodist fundamentalists, et al. Even men from vastly differing denominations could unite on the fundamentals.

    Not so today. [​IMG]
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Mar 1, 2003
  7. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Ken H noted:

    Interestingly enough, sometime this week I caught part of the Jack Van Impe show, and he stated that non-dispensationalists were not christians. So I guess it is getting that way.

    Jeff.
     
    #7 Jeff Weaver, Mar 1, 2003
  8. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Gentlemen,

    It is indeed unfortunate we cannot all sit down with the open Bible and come to similar conclusions. Yes fellowship is an ideal we should strive to maintain. But true fellowship is founded on the bedrock of the Christ of holy scripture. If that is not our concern as well then we are just another ecumenical group mouthing platitudes and pretending to like each other's gods when we don't. (Well maybe Bishop Tutu does in fact like the Hindu god Kali as it disembowels babies.) Anyway, the days ahead will call for a deeper level of Christianity than we had back in the days of "Leave it to Beaver". Every step forward in history was a new trial for the church. I hope we are not Sleeping Beauty. It may soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee. My burden, as is the burden of most on this board, is to see the scriptures opened up. Is this just for academic reasons or to puff ourselves up in Bible knowledge? Hopefully not. We are the saints. We are the witnesses of Jesus Christ. We will need to be spiritually and scripturally prepared as we move out further along the pilgrim pathway. We need correct information in this spiritual war just like an army needs correct information in an earthly war. If we do not believe that then we may as well join our teenagers and yawn in church and other Christian gatherings such as this one. Because they will have become irrelevant.

    Grace and peace to all the saints,

    Gavin
     
    #8 Gavin, Mar 1, 2003
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I agree. [​IMG] But a particular eschatological view is not part of that bedrock. We must agree that there is a second coming of Jesus. We do not have to agree on one particular interpretation of the the symbolic language of of the book of Revelation. [​IMG]
     
    #9 KenH, Mar 1, 2003
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It used to be that dispensationalists promoted their viewpoint without casting doubt on the salvation of those who disagree with them. That appears to be changing on the part of some dispensationalists. :( Such a change to attack mode from promotion mode usually indicates a lack of confidence in one's position.
     
    #10 KenH, Mar 1, 2003
  11. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    BROTHER GLEN>>>Are you looking for the harlot?... Try Ezekiel 16 and there she is in her full glory!... That is scriptural... biblical... and truthful... because God named her not us... She is the Mother of all harlots... She is Jerusalem!

    GAVIN>>> Jerusalem you say. Isn't Jerusalem our city? The New Jerusalem is the true bride of Christ isn't she?

    REV.21:2
    2 "Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

    This judgement of Jerusalem as an unfaithful city/people of God would seem to include us in the church as well as the Jewish nation, Brother Glen.

    BTW. What do you think about those Millennial fish that will be swimming around in the geologically healed Dead Sea and spoken of in Ezekiel 47? I'd like to hear your opinion of those fish.

    Blessings,
    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgrim.org/millennium.htm
     
    #11 Gavin, Mar 1, 2003
  12. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Brother Bob,

    That is interesting about the historic fundamentalists viewing preterism as heresy. Why was that?

    On the net many partial preterists are saying that the "prince" of Dan. 9:26 and who makes a 7 year covenant in Dan.9:27 was Jesus of all people. Then 3.5 years later He stops the sacrifices because they are no longer necessary? Then He is supposed to have set up an abominable idol, the abomination of desolation way back then? Sounds bad.

    Is there something else about preterism and partial preterism that made evangelicals take such a strong stsnd against them back at the Niagra Conventions?

    Blessings,

    Gavin
     
    #12 Gavin, Mar 1, 2003
  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Christ compares fish to men does he not?... In selecting his Apostles he tells them to leave their nets and he will make them fishers of men?... Were they not fishers of men?... And did they not fish for both Jews and Gentiles?... I don't see any literal millenial fish being healed in the dead sea... For what reason?... But I do see those healing men as fishers of men that Jesus sent... Who were dead in the law and as Paul said... Romans 7: [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

    [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    Sounds to me like Saul of Tarsus was swimming in the dead sea!... Gavin these questions are to easy!... Brother Glen :D
     
    #13 tyndale1946, Mar 1, 2003
  14. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Brother Glen,

    So you don't believe that the Ezekiel 47 story of the waters being released from the aquifer under Jerusalem when Mount of Olives is split at the second coming is a prophecy of a future literal geological event?-Zech.14 And you do not believe in a literal freshening of the Dead Sea? And no future existence of fish in the Dead Sea?

    You mean this is all spiritual vibrations, poetic language, religious allegory, a parable, a nice story for the stained glassworks?

    Blessings,
    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgrim.org/millennium.htm
     
    #14 Gavin, Mar 2, 2003
  15. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Jeff, I am shocked that you would be caught watching Jack's show. Although sometimes it's a hoot. Not that I would ever stop at that channel, of course ...
     
    #15 rsr, Mar 2, 2003
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I see nothing else in it as all that I mentioned was a truth that came to pass!... You want to steal from the beauty of the illustration go ahead... Then show me in the Bible when literal fish were healed... Jonah was swallowed by one... And Jesus fed the five thousand after blessing the fishes and loaves.

    After all the Gospel did issue forth from Jerusalem by the Apostles and spread forth across the world... And Apostle Paul was one of Jesus Christ prized fishermen... He went to the Gentiles catching fish... I mean men!... He was the least of the Apostles and one born out of due time... The first missionary if I'm not in error and a fisher of men!

    I have a question for you if there are going to be millenial fish... What are they going to be used for?... Or is the Lord telling us I just healed a multitude of fish in the dead sea?... Words in the Bible are there for a reason not to just take up space and are meant to be applied in many ways... Gavin I just don't see no literal millennial healed fish in the future in the dead sea!... You are welcome to your opinion!... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 02, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
    #16 tyndale1946, Mar 2, 2003
  17. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Brother Glen,

    What? No fish in the healed waters of the Millennial Dead Sea? That's sad, Glen. And here I was looking forward to you and I visiting the area in our new spiritual bodies and all. Some ministry among the mortal saints just like Jesus along the Emmaus road. We turn up, minister, then are beamed on to our next visitation or back into the spiritual mansions.

    Can you imagine the scene, Glen. Perhaps we may join those doing a little fishing from a beach catamaran offshore. Then as the sun sets over the hills of Judea we gather for a joyful fish fry on the beach at Engedi. Some singing of praises and testimonies around a campfire as a few kayaks pull in. Why even the Messiah Himself might show up for the gathering. Ahh yes! What a glorious scene.

    This is not totally wild speculation here. This comes from God's promise that the saints will be ruling and reigning with Him for a thousand years.-Rev.20:2-7 Jesus has already shown us how this is done. He demonstrated it to us on several occasions in the days before His ascension to the Father.

    Blessings,

    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgrim.org/millennium.htm
     
    #17 Gavin, Mar 2, 2003
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Gavin are you talking about a thousand year reign which I also don't believe in?... Or is that a picture of Heaven?... I hope it is more exciting than that?... You post... pre... and dispys are a hoot! [​IMG] ... Just won't let go will you?... Brother Glen :rolleyes:
     
    #18 tyndale1946, Mar 2, 2003
  19. Gavin

    Gavin New Member

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    Dear Glen,

    OK. I won't mention fish from the healed waters of the Millennial Dead Sea any more.

    But I will say this. I hope they have some lemons, dill and tartar sauce at Engedi for when we arrive!

    Blessings,

    Gavin
     
    #19 Gavin, Mar 2, 2003
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Okay Gavin if you promise to pipe down I'll pass my plate? :D ... This Primitive Baptist has never been known to pass up a free meal [​IMG] ... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #20 tyndale1946, Mar 2, 2003
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