are liberals worst sinners then non liberals?

first i would like to give my opinion, which i hope most share. i believe that they are not any more sinners then any one else, i of coarse being fundamentally conservative and having good doctrine still see myself as chief sinner.(saved by grace) now i do however see liberal religionist of today as the main enemy of the gospel as was the pharisees out spoken rejection would have been in pauls time. i believe that it should be more stressed to put Christians on guard against the ongoing liberal assault to weaken true Christians and also to try to impede the gospel.
(this could of been a good poll)

No.

All are sinners and no one has excuse or justification. Only the grace of God through Jesus the Christ changes the situation.

Ted Bundy was more dangerous than a jaywalker yet, both were criminals. False teachers are more devastating to their flock than my grandmother's white lie about my haircut yet, both are sinners. To not be able to see the difference between two different influences is willfull self deception. Jesus did not treat everyone the same. He was much rougher on the whited sepulcres than most of the sinners he came in contact with.

I think this is more what Lassdak was taking about.

Matt 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
Ted Bundy was more dangerous than a jaywalker yet, both were criminals. False teachers are more devastating to their flock than my grandmother's white lie about my haircut yet, both are sinners. To not be able to see the difference between two different influences is willfull self deception. Jesus did not treat everyone the same. He was much rougher on the whited sepulcres than most of the sinners he came in contact with.

I think this is more what Lassdak was taking about.

Matt 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

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Lassdak????? was that a mistake????? if so the letter L is the letter of LIBERAL yikes i would of rather you said nassdak or nasdaq

[ June 23, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: massdak ]

There is no such thing as one person being a "worse" sinner than another.

What makes you a sinner is not the acts of sin that you commit. Murder, rape, stealing a pencil from work, gossip, lies, telling someone on the phone that you doorbell is ringing when it isn,t...

...none of these things make you a sinner nor do they send you to hell.

What makes you a sinner is that you are born, because of Adam and Eve, with a natural filthy desire to sin.

Where the difference lies is the varied consequences of sin. A murderer will pay a greater penalty than someone who rudely yells in someone else's face.

Someone who sleeps with multiple partners will pay a higher price than someone who takes a stapler home from work and doesn't return it.

Consequences vary.

The sinful nature is common to us all. Therefore, the individual acts of sin do not and cannot rank us as "better" or "worse" human beings.

We do that ourselves. We rank people as "better than me" or "worse that me".

And that, too, is a grevious sin.

Peace-

YSIC
Scarlett O.
<><

Since we are all saved by grace, we are all sinners, there is no such thing as whose the worse sinner.

While there is a promise of differing degrees of punishment (damnation), if one dies "in their sin," they spend eternity in separation from God. That is the ultimate punishment. All it takes to "die in your sin" is one sin, no matter how great or small, that is not covered by the blood of Jesus.

Is a person who is blown to bits more dead than someone who peacefully dies in their sleep? No, they are both dead!

But the real question that was asked (I believe) regarding liberals, is does their view of God's Word make them more apt to sin, or to not ask for forgiveness for what God considers a sin that they don't!

My definition of a liberal Christian is a "Cultural Christian." They have made their god into the image they want so they can fit in with the culture of the world today. Instead of total surrender to the God who is, and allowing themselves to be conformed to His image, they rationalize a god who will allow them to be who they want to be!

Originally posted by massdak:
Lassdak????? was that a mistake????? if so the letter L is the letter of LIBERAL yikes i would of rather you said nassdak or nasdaq

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My bad. I don't think fingers can do a Freudian slip?

Scarlett and Katie, I am not saying that there is a different condemnation of sinners, all are lost to the same degree regardless of their sin. What I am saying is that there is a difference in sins. Example, you may say that murder is no different than stealing but, if you had to choose which one you wanted to happen to a loved one, you would pick having something stolen from them because you see a difference between that and having them killed. That's all I am trying to say. Paul said he was chief of sinners and Jesus called some hypocrites and vipers. I am just saying that I agree with Paul and Jesus and you seem to be saying that WE are wrong. (I know you aren't saying that)

John said,

Is a person who is blown to bits more dead than someone who peacefully dies in their sleep? No, they are both dead! [Roll Eyes]

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Yes, they are equally dead BUT, if you got to choose, which one would you wish for a loved one? The answer tells you that there is a difference.

Originally posted by John Wells:
While there is a promise of differing degrees of punishment (damnation), if one dies "in their sin," they spend eternity in separation from God. That is the ultimate punishment. All it takes to "die in your sin" is one sin, no matter how great or small, that is not covered by the blood of Jesus.

Is a person who is blown to bits more dead than someone who peacefully dies in their sleep? No, they are both dead!

But the real question that was asked (I believe) regarding liberals, is does their view of God's Word make them more apt to sin, or to not ask for forgiveness for what God considers a sin that they don't!

My definition of a liberal Christian is a "Cultural Christian." They have made their god into the image they want so they can fit in with the culture of the world today. Instead of total surrender to the God who is, and allowing themselves to be conformed to His image, they rationalize a god who will allow them to be who they want to be!

Click to expand...

Liberals view of Gods word is distorted and they view Gods word to suit thier own agenda. if they believe in a different god or believe in a different gospel then they are doing much harm to themselves and those who follow them.

Liberalism (from my perspective) denies cardinal doctrines of the Word of God or interprets them into non-existence.

We have a liberal Baptist pastor who denies the Bible is the Word of God. He denies the diety of Christ, His virgin birth, sinless life, vicarious atonement, bodily resurrection and ascension. He is beyond amillennial.

I would say that I am a sinner and yet God has redeemed me by His grace. But can a liberal (as liberal as listed above) even be truly born again?

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
can a liberal even be truly born again?

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Adrian Rogers thinks so. Back in 1979 he said that Heaven would break loose if liberal Southern Baptists really claimed the power of the Cross.

Originally posted by massdak:
first i would like to give my opinion, which i hope most share. i believe that they are not any more sinners then any one else, i of coarse being fundamentally conservative and having good doctrine still see myself as chief sinner.(saved by grace) now i do however see liberal religionist of today as the main enemy of the gospel as was the pharisees out spoken rejection would have been in pauls time. i believe that it should be more stressed to put Christians on guard against the ongoing liberal assault to weaken true Christians and also to try to impede the gospel.
(this could of been a good poll)

Click to expand...

Absolutely, Amen & Amen...

There isn’t a different level of sinners, if you’re guilty in one point of the law, then you’re guilty of all ….. For we all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God… But….. Thank God that where sin did abound, grace much more abounded….

Jesus came into this world to save sinners, in which I am chief… I haven’t any time to judge another mans servant….. I’m to busy pulling beams out of my on eyes….. Thank you very much…..

The only difference between me, and the unsaved drunk walking up the street, falling into an alley, is that I have excepted the fact that Christ has died for me, and he hasn’t….

The problem, as Dr. Bob and I have previously eluded to, is that Satan is in the counterfeit business big time, and there are millions of "cultural Christians" who claim the name of Jesus as their Savior, but follow a counterfeit gospel, worshipping a god they've designed who let's them live the way they want to live. They've never surrendered all and said, "God, do with me as you will." Rather, they've said something like, "Thank you for your gift of eternal life God. Now, let me live my life the way I want to, not the way you require." They may not have mouthed or actually thought these words, but their lives testify to that attitude.

How else could a practicing adulterer, alcoholic, h*omose*xual, etc., or self-serving person think they are saved? Yet, there are millions of them. How can a Gallop poll show 87% of people who call themselves Christians claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and only 11% read their Bibles regularly? I'll tell you how . . . they are trusting in a counterfeit Christianity for their salvation. There will come a time when "Many will say to Me (Jesus) on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you (no personal relationship!); depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness (see also Luke 13:26-27).

John,

It seems to me that the Republican, socially/fiscally conservative "Christians" so prominent in the U.S. these days are as much "cultural Christians" as the liberals whom you decry. They've managed to turn a Savior who opposed wealth and violence into a supporter of capitalism and war.

When it comes right down to it, very very few Christians are willing to allow themselves to be transformed into something truly counter-cultural. At best, they allow themselves to move from one culture (secular hedonists perhaps) to another (conservative evangelicals).

Joshua

They've managed to turn a Savior who opposed wealth

Prove that..

Joshua,

For a Savior/God whom you say "opposed wealth," He sure blessed Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, other kings of Judah and Israel, and many faithful believers down through the ages with it. God appoints each their station in life . . . some with wealth and some not.

As to “warring” with a tyrant dictator to liberate a severely oppressed and abused Iraqi people, what part of that do you oppose?

[ June 24, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: John Wells ]

liberals seem more concerned with politically correct issues then they do real moral issues and faith. they worry about homosexual agendas more then the harm it does to children, they worry if a women can chose over a baby's life, they worry about white conservative males having higher financial positions over minority's, they worry about guns even though it reduces crime for people to have them, they believe women are threatened more by men then the fairness of law.

Originally posted by Rev. Joshua:
They've managed to turn a Savior who opposed wealth

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Then I realized that it is good and proper for a man to eat and drink, and to find satisfaction in his toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given him—for this is his lot. Moreover, when God gives any man wealth and possessions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work—this is a gift of God. (Ecclesiastes 5:18-19)

Joshua, I hope you can see the vast contrast between the god you've created between your ears and the God who is!

- Luke 12:13-31
- Mark 10:21-27
- Matthew 6:19-21, 24-33
- Matthew 5:40-42
- Acts 5:32-37

The teachings of Jesus and actions of the Apostles take precedence over the collected aphorisms from the wisdom literature of the Hebrew scriptures. (John - Jesus didn't write Ecclesiastes.)

Joshua

Joshua,

All Scripture is God-breathed . . . (2 Timothy 3:16)

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (John 14:9)

How can you say the things you do, Joshua?
Yes, Jesus (God) did supernaturally inspire/write Ecclesiastes!

Once again, you give further proof that your god is not the God who is!