What Disqualifies a Preacher?

Who's making excuses?

No one should be held accountable for something they cannot control.

Sure, if a man will not control those in "his own house", he needs to get away and reevaluate himself.

If my grown daughter who does not live in my house robs a bank and goes to jail, why am I held to scorn?

 

Wiz,

I think the scenario you propose is strictly hypothetical. In the real world, would you go to a church where the pastor's grown son was on "America's Most Wanted" and take copius notes as the pastor taught the church about the proper role of a father?

He's discredited, but no, he's not responsible for his son's crimes. The point is that he cannot be a credible leader in the church.

In Christ,

Tim

 

How could he be discredited, when he isn't responsible for his son's actions?

I personally would not hold it against someone who's grown child, who is supposed to be responsible for his own actions, were to get in trouble. I don't see how you can say otherwise.

 

Ultimately, everyone is responsible for their own actions. But parents are the most influencial people in a person's formative years. Their actions, or inactions have an effect on how that person turns out.

I, for one, want to be trained by people with demonstrable success in what they are teaching--pastors included.

In Christ,

Tim

 

Hey Tim, Hey Wiz, I just want to make this interjection on the divorced pastor. The wife is going thru menopause, she "loses it", becomes a manic depressive and divorces her husband against his will. He stays loyal to his 1st and only wife remaining unmarried. I understand this would disqualify him on the grounds of not being able to maintain his family. I know a man who pastored a church for years and never has married, he's 41 now, and an evangelist. I never felt he was qualified to pastor, especially in the area of dealing with family problems involving the husband/wife relationship. I also can't limit the Word Of God to say he couldn't apply scripture to counsel in that particular area or anyother one for that matter.

The question I have is the divorced, yet loyal man of God disqualified to pastor? or is he also disqualified to even preach? ( He technically is still the husband of one wife, and considering the circumstances, his home is still in order, just in need of the element of time to correct the matter)

Now I do know a married couple that the wife had an affair for 4+ years with a married man in their church. The pastor resigned and both couples are still married, making all the wrongs right, and reconciled their marriages, apologized to everyone, the whole nine yards . This pastor is now the pastor of another church. Do you think he should not pastor ? Why, or why not?

I think he and his wife are more qualified to deal with people on a more personable basis having been through the difficulties of infidelity. To God be the glory!

In Christ,

Brother Ricky

 

Welcome to the Dark Ages everyone!
Each person is responsible to God and God alone for their spiritual growth. This is stupid comment that brutalizes the doctines of Soul Compentacy and Priesthood of the Believer. I would even say it is a sexist comment to make considering the women on this board who often times make more spiritually enlighted comments then the men!

 

The bottom line is God can use anyone He chooses....man, woman, divorced, single, whatever. For us to decide who God can and cannot use in the role of pastor or any other area of service is assuming the place of God. I for one am not qualified to disqualify anyone.

 

Let me follow through with the logic of the argument, God can do whatever he wants with whomever he wants.

Maybe God will decide to save everyone who sincerely seeks after God--Hindus, Muslims, and Jews.

Problem? He wrote otherwise. Same problem with saying that a poor father makes a good pastor. God says otherwise.

In Christ,

Tim

 

And who are you to judge who is or isn't a good father? Who are you to judge who is or isn't pastor material?

Let God be the judge. If the man is not where he should be, God will remove him.

 

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THOSE THAT CONSIDER A DIVORCED PREACHER, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF TARNISHMENT THAT THEY CONSIDER TO DISQUALIFY A MAN FOR THE MINISTRY...IF THEY THEMSELVES ARE SPIRITUAL? AND IF SO...HAVE YOU CONSIDERED GALATIANS 6:1...NOTICE THE WORD RESTORE...NOW IF YOU WOULD PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK THAT WORD UP IN A GOOD DICTIONARY SUCH AS NOAH WEBSTERS 1828 EDITION...OR YOU PICK ONE OUT...IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS...TO PUT BACK INTO PREVIOUS OR PRIOR CONDITION AND POSITION AS BEFORE. I WILL OPINIONIZE THOUGH...I BELIEVE IT TO HAPPEN ONLY AFTER HE HAS SHOWN TRUE REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD AND THE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO FORGIVE AND ALLOW HIS LEADERSHIP AGAIN. BUT ALSO IN MANY CASES AS STATED PREVIOUSLY IN ANOTHER REPLY...SOME PREACHERS ARE VICTIMS OF CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND THEIR CONTROL AND SHOULD HAVE THAT SUPPORT OF THE CHRISTIANS THAT THEY THEMSELVES WOULD EXPECT. I WILL SAY THIS...AS FAR AS LIVING ABOVE REPROACH...I NOR ANY OTHER PREACHER WILL EVER REACH THE PLACE IN OUR LIVES AND MINISTRIES THAT SOMEONE IS NOT GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING BAD TO REPORT ABOUT US,OR SAY ABOUT US. I TRY AS DO MANY OTHER PREACHERS TO LIVE AS SO THE MINISTRY BE NOT BLAMED...AND WHEN THOSE WHO PREACH THAT A MINISTER IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOVE REPROACH, TAKE THE TIME TO PRACTICE THE SAME STANDARDS THEY WANT TO APPLY TO A PREACHER...THEN THE PREACHER WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO PREACH ON THAT WOULD UPSET THOSE INDIVIDUALS. PREACH WHAT YOU PRACTICE AND THEN LET EVERYONE ELSE DECIDE...

 

Let us look at actual leaders in the Bible here.
Aaron had two sons that did what they should not have done and God slew them. Aaron was still High Priest.
Eli had some sons out of control. He was even warned to control them and did not. Eli was still judge until his death.
What shall we say about David? His troubles were his doings, but his children's actions were THEIR own. David remained King.
Looking at those passages (1Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:16) both state "...the husband of one wife..." The point being that, taking a wooden litteral sense here, the Apostle Paul himself would not qualify for a Church position! (He never married.)
God does indeed call for us to make judgements, but to do so with mercy and understanding.
There can be cases when killing is apropriate.
(Joshua did not say, "Excuse me Mr. Canaanite, may we take your land." Or, should they have said "You go right ahead Mr. Hitler and butcher
all you want to, that's fine with us.")
There has always been situations where lying is appropriate. Pharoah wanted the jewish midwives to slay all of the male babies. When asked why they didn't, the midwives told Pharoah something that just wasn't true; and God was with them!
The point being: look at the individual case and make a righteous judgement.

 

Yep, I agree, Good thing it wasn't made by me. Paul was quite the sexist wasn't he

If you disagree, explain this passage

" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of the water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish " Ephesians 5:25-27

Notice it is under the context of a husband's love for his wife. Paul likens the marriage relationship to the relationship of Christ to the Church, and this is not the only passage that does that, it is merely the only one attaching it to a specific command to Husbands.

Yes, you are correct that the wife is obviously responsible for her spiritual condition as well, but the scriptures cannot be ignored, the spiritual leadership of the husband is positional, not essential. If you met me and my wife, you would wonder what in the world she was thinking, and she makes very astute and amazing observations about scripture that amaze me. She is my total equal, but has chosen to submit to me as the husband, and I submit to her many times as well, as anyone with a balanced view of the scripture will do. I think you speak of things you know not of!
We have specific God-given roles, and we try to stay within those bounds, at the same time, having great respect for each other. Ask anybody that knows me, My wife is not a doormat, neither would I treat her as such. I view her as my equal, but a person who fulfills a much different role in the family than I do. Just as there are people I work with who have different skill sets than I do, but fulfill their role within the team. They take care of things I would not be able to do, and vice versa, same way in the family.

Pastors will be held accountable for their flocks, Husbands will be held accountable for their families, that doesn't mean that everyone who has a family member or church member go astray will be judged, it has more to do with their responsibilities, not the outcome! To directly apply this to the current topic, the pastor in question may have fulfilled his God-given responsibilities in his family, and other factors caused the problems, that is why you cannot make blanket statements, you have to evaluate each situation.

Now given the above scripture, and really the whole of scripture, I do not view my statement as sexist, or anything else, clearly, you either do not understand the scrptures on this, or you did not understand my statement and what it really entailed

 

Dr. Bob,
I can't remember the last time we were in 100% agreement on an issue, can you? I appreciate your support. This issue is something I'm passionate about (even more than eschatology.

And Wiz, I'm not putting myself in God's place when I simply uphold a scriptural standard. Yes, God will judge all men. But that doesn't absolve the church or it's pastor from their responsiblities in these matters. If I were an unsaved man with well-behaved children visiting a church to seek after the truth and I found out the the pastor had unruly children, my conclusion would be that Christianity is only theoretical--it doesn't really work. A pretty effective stumbling block if you ask me!

In Christ,

Tim

 

No matter how good a family a child comes from, no matter how much you have taught them right from wrong, they are still going to make their own decisions, and you'll find what you taught them may not be reflected in their decisions.

 

Thats right Kate, that is why you have to focus on your personal responsibilites, that is why I posted above in clarification

 

Watchman,somehow I think you've missed the point of the O.T. Bible stories you cite above. For example, Eli was sent a messenger from God to reprimand him for his parental failures. He would be removed, his sons killed, and Samuel would replace them. David suffered tremendously for his parental failures, as did the whole nation.
And all this was under the OLD covenant.
We're in a better covenant than they were, and God has raised the expectations for leadership in the church. Hence we have the qualifications given in Timothy and Titus.

Bro. Armstrong, restored to fellowship, yes, absolutely--to leadership--no, not until the problem is fixed.

Kate, as I said before, parents may see many unintended results from their child-training, but upon closer examination deficiencies in training come to light which do have some cause and effect relationship to the children's problems--I'm convinced of this from much experience in dealing with family problems. Yes, it is heart-breaking. I'm not going to wag my finger at the parents for those shortcomings, we need to help them, but neither will I overlook these faults in a man in a leadership position. Then the errors will likely be repeated in others under his authority. That is too great a cost simply to keep one man in the pastorate uninterrupted.

In Christ,

Tim