What About The Sabbath?! Many Baptists Do not Keep the Sabbath ..Why???l

Unregenerate society.

The just shall live by faith.

HankD

 

And what truly Just person would have the slightest desire to break even one of the 10 Commandments?

 

No one keeps the 10 commandments.

Images are forbidden both to possess and/or worship.

Exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Including pictures:
Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

Private possession of images is forbidden:
Deuteronomy 27
15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

Take out your wallet or purse, (secret place) it is stuffed with paper and coins with images from the department of enGRAVENment.

The Hebrew shekel (before 70AD) was the one international coin which had no images in order to keep the 2nd commandment.

The Law forbids both the private ownership as well as the worship of images.

If your hope is in the keeping of the 10 commandments you are under a curse from breaking the 2nd commandment if you possess image(s).

HankD

 

Images of False Gods Hank.

 

Exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Deuteronomy 4
16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

 

Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 1
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 20
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Luke 5
36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Luke 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? ...

5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

[ May 14, 2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Book of Revelation. The book of Prophetic Future Events.

Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the Saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God AND the Faith of Jesus.

Even in Prophecy people are still keeping the 10 Commandments.

 

Actually it doesn't say the 10 commandments so it may or not be the 10.
It might be the 613.
It might be Jesus commandments given to His disciples.

As much as you would like to extricate The 10 commandments from the law you cannot because not one jot or tittle of the law will pass away.
The 10 commandments are part of the law, if you try to rip it from the OT Torah and patch it onto the New Covenant, both will perish.

It is law or grace.

And the Law must be kept in every jot and tittle upon the penalty of a curse.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The just shall live by faith.

HankD

 

Dear Thunder,

Yes it is :

"What About The Sabbath?! Many Baptists Do not Keep the Sabbath ..Why???"

I am trying to answer this question from the Scriptures as to why I do not need to "keep" the earthly sabbath in the 7th day keepers definition of both "keep" and "sabbath" (although I am "keeping" the heavenly Sabbath).

It all comes down to the Law and its "lawful" use for today (age of grace) to restrain, reprove and convict the lost of their sin and to ultimately bring the lost to Christ through grace by faith from the Spirit of God.

But even 7th day keepers do not keep the 613 mitzvoth of the Law or the 10 Words which requires all or nothing (curse).

The only definition of earthly sabbath keeping is in the Law (Torah) of which 7th day keepers pick and choose which of the sabbath day keeping rules to obey thereby invoking the Torah curse.

Personally I don't have a problem with those who want to "keep" (memorialize is a better word) the 7th day as a faith conviction apart from what is required of salvation (faith via grace). One of my questions is why do you choose to keep Sabbath (howbeit in a limited and non-Torah way) and not rid yourselves of images?

While they all claim that salvation is apart from the Law, sooner or later in a dialogue with them, many 7th day keepers will question either the salvation or sanctification of the 1st day "keepers".

Many that I have encountered (directly or otherwise) call 1st day keeping the "mark of the beast" and/or imply that 1st day keepers are apostates.

That is their right to do so but when I/we (1st day "keepers") are challenged on a debating forum concerning our faith conviction sometimes I reply.


HankD

 

That Sunday-keepers are the beast, participating
in the mark of the beast? Ludicrous.

That the Seventh Day is the Sabbath? Correct.

 

Hank, a couple of things here. firstly we believe that the Sabbath was given to all people in Genisis 2:3. Way before any of the Jewish Law was introduced. That Law being as a means of Salvation for the Jews and Proselites. Hence the Sabbath is most certainley a seperate issue to the salvation of Jews prior to Christ.

Hank I will agree with you on one thing that you have said to a point. You mention that sooner or later 7th day keepers begin to link this with Salvation. You are right that a number of groups do in fact do this. The SDA used to refer to themselves as the "Remnant", and various church of God groups are teaching along similiar lines.

I am a Pastor with the Seventh Day Baptist Church. I can garantee you that this teaching has ABSOLUTLEY NOT true of the Seventh Day Baptist Church. If a person gets saved in any Christian church that is it. It is a done deal with God.

Seventh Day Baptists keep the Sabbath in the History of the Early Church. There are several references in the Bible to the church meeting on the Sabbath. The goal of the Seventh Day Baptist Church is to be as close as possible as to being like the Early Chruch in the bible.

The Seventh Day Baptist Church were one of the first Evangelical groups to break away from Catholiscm along with the Quakers and the Brethren. Many churches are still teraching the Catholic Doctrine that Sunday is the Sabbath which is a false teaching. It is on that basis that we meet on Saturday, to be like the early church.

check out

http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/

 

Dear Abiyah,

Yes the seventh day is the Sabbath (Saturday in our society).
The first day of the week is Sunday (resurrection day).

Dear Ben: Good.

HankD

 

Yes, thunder there are many sabbatarians who associate 1st day keeping with the Beast of Revelation, the antichrist and/or apostate christianity.

My belief: Before the Incarnation of Christ the Sabbath and other legalities such as circumcision and animal sacrifice were practiced. In fact Abel offered animal sacrifice from the beginning well before the giving of the Law. Using the pre-law criteria seventh day keepers should circumcise their males and offer animal sacrifices.

I realize that their is more to it than just that.
But it is a valid observation.
I will admit that sabbatarians also make valid points that need to be addressed.

In my view according to the Scripture these legalities pointed to Christ, His sacrifice, entering into His rest and receiving the circumcision of the heart.

Before the giving of the Law and from creation the seventh day was blessed and sanctified. It is not called the sabbath (shabbat) until the giving of the Law but signified as the seventh (shabee-ee) day. No detail or command to "keep" the sabbath was given until the giving of the Law.

The only details of Sabbath keeping are contained in the Law (Torah). Personally, I have never felt led of the Spirit to "keep" the earthly sabbath. The law slew me because of my iniquities. It has nothing to say to me anymore, I am in Christ. I live by faith.

The Law is for the lost to ultimately bring the elect to Christ out of the world, pointing out by reproval and self-conviction the wickedness of the human heart and their need of a Savior.

The end product of our salvation (sanctification) is a 24/7 relationship with our heavenly Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit.

If one wishes to "remember" the sabbath as part of their walk of faith I personally have no quarrel.

There are many other points, please do a search on "sabbath" here on the BB so you can see both points of view.

HankD

[ May 17, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

To me the first day of the week is on Monday not Sunday. It's just a calendar. Therefore, my bases are covered. Na na na na na na!!!!!!

 

Abiyah:

I read your post, then went to your profile. You have said that you are Torah observant.
I am actually very interested in hearing you elaborate on this. Do you follow all of the laws of Moses?

 

In trying to find reasons for Sunday worship observance, some people look to calendar changes. Since it was changed in the English world in 1752, they argue that we cannot know which day is the seventh. "So to uphold the seventh day Sabbath on Saturday is unreasonable." But is it?
1. The seventh day on our calendar is in the same seven-day cycle as on the calendar of the orthodox Jew. The cycle has been used for over 5,700 years. For example, the year 1990 is 5750 on the Jewish calendar.
Today's Sabbath is in the same cycle that was used when Jesus lived on the earth. The Sabbath always falls on the seventh day of the week on our calendar.
What about calendar changes since Christ?
The Julian Calendar
The Julian calendar was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 B.C. This calendar had 365 days, with every fourth year having 366 days, assuming that the year was 365 1/4 days long.
The Gregorian Calendar
In 1582, under Gregory XIII, it was found that the year is actually 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 50 seconds long--11 minutes and 10 seconds less than the Julian calculations. By 1582, this error had caused a gain of ten days on the calendar.
After much study, it was decided to drop those ten days. But this change did not affect the order of the days of the week, only the dates of the days of the month. The new Gregorian calendar was adopted in October, 1582. It showed Thursday, October 4, followed by Friday, October 15:
October 1582
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sab
- 1 2 3 4 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31 - - - - - -

Have there been other changes?
The English Calendar
In England, the change was not made until 1752. By that time, eleven days had been gained. When the Gregorian calendar was adopted, eleven days were dropped; and Wednesday, September 2, was followed by Thursday, September 14. Here again, the dates of the month were changed, but not the order of the days of the week.
September 1752
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sab
- - 1 2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
- - - - - - -

W.J. Eckert of the Naval Observatory, director of the Nautical Almanac, said, "The change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in no way affected the weekly cycle. This cycle has not been altered for as long as records have been available."
What should our commitment be?
The Sabbath that Jesus honored was the Sabbath that his fellow countrymen used. They had honored it for centuries. It is the same Sabbath today! It is the seventh day of each week on the calendars we now use.
How far are we willing to follow Christ's example in Sabbath observance?
The 7th Day of the Bible
IS
the 7th Day on the Calendar!
You can't change that and therefore your bases are not covered.

 

Just some simple logic by numerology:
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,..............8!

Sunday,Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday,
Saturday, Day of the Lord/the 8th day, the day of a new beginning.

When the Lord saved me, it really didn't make any difference what day it was, just like when Jesus healed on the Sabbath, only the Sadducees and the Pharisees objected to His working on the Sabbath.

Those who are saved by grace are given a "new beginning". II Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature, (not creation!)old things are passed away! BEHOLD! ALL things are become NEW!

"8" is the number of a "new Beginning". It's not a matter of the seventh day or the first day, or any other day, but of the utmost importance of the "NEW DAY!" which is the 8th day.

I've read all the posts concerning the Sabbath and the closest to the truth were those referencing to Jesus being our "Sabbath", this is true, we can only keep the whole law and not offend in one point by being in Jesus.

We are already "seated" in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (notice how the Holy Ghost inspired that order: Christ Jesus! Jesus abolished in His flesh the handwriting of ordinances that are against us. Were not the TEN Commandments written by God's own Hand? Are they not also for us, but since we can't keep them in perfection, only Jesus has, they in turn are against us! (Don't you just love how God balances that all out for us?!?)

To keep the Law we MUST be in Jesus! To be in Jesus is to be living in the eigth day, eternally speaking: "I'm already there in Jesus, waitin' on my body to be!"

Yall can argue and "debate" all you want, but the Lord showed me this a long time ago and it's right in line with the folowing Scripture:

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. {honestly: or, decently}
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. {not…: or, not to judge his doubtful thoughts}
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I'm 2/3, waiting for the sound of the Trumpet! Waiting and watching unto that never-ending Day!

Trying to cause one another to determine which day of the week is the right one, is placing the same under bondage, so who "in Jesus" wants to remain in bondage? NOT ME!!! 'Cause I ain't!

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

How can people see keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath as being under bondage?

God gave us the Seventh Day right from the dawn of Creation. It is a blessing for us to be able to rest one day in Seven. It is no Bondage of Law.

There is no Eighth day in the Calender. Like it or Lump it the world still functions to the Seventh Day Week that God created in the book of Genesis. In Genesis 2:3 God sets apart the Seventh Day as a day of Rest to commemorate the fact that He Himself Rested on the Seventh Day.

God gives us the Seventh Day, and prior to the giving of the Laws of Israel makes it a precedent that all are to keep it in commemoration of what He did in Creating the World. Genesis 2:3 states that God Consecrated the Seventh Day to and for us.

The book of Genesis is under attack because it does not teach the Evolution theory taught in most government schools. The Creation account is no fable. If God rested on the Seventh Day then that is what happened. If God instucts all people to keep it then again that is a right and true account.

Catholiscm might well teach that the Sabbath is changed to Sunday. Many might want to follow after the the instructions of the Papacy in how they should keep Sunday as the Sabbath. But Genesis 2:3 still stands.