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What Constitutes a Local Church

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 4, 2003.

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  1. David Mark

    David Mark New Member

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    Only the cults have tried to intimidate me with their "authority".
     
    #21 David Mark, Dec 6, 2003
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    No, you are a church-plant - a proto-church in embryonic stage. Work with a small group and eventually charter and incorporate as a church per se.

    But some never do. They are Bible studies and groups TRYING to be a church, but never quite get the "organized" part of it.
    [/QB][/QUOTE]

    Dr Bob, Many years ago I was in Wildflecken, Gy with the US Army. I went to chapel once (was that a waste of time). I was able to start a small Bible Study on a weeknight. I was not allowed to use the chapel, beacuse, I was not ordained. Our Bible study met for about 6 months. It was not that well attended beacuse many of the GI's were always in the field playing army. Late that summer we decided to start Sunday services. I could not believe how many showed up on that first Sunday. After the service we voted to consitute into a local Baptist Church. I was elected as pastor! We did not incorporate. The only "legal status" we had was a bank account at Americian Express on the Army post.

    Would you consider us a church plant, a full fledge church or what?

    By the way within three months we were running well over 50 in attendence. Since I did not requrie a salary (since your tax dollars paid me) our expenses were not that high.
     
    #22 Salty, Dec 6, 2003
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    GREAT QUESTION: A church plant is really a part of a "mother church", perhaps in a nearby community. The church plant has not officers; they are borrowed from the Mother church. Same with constitution. Same with authority for baptism and the Lord's supper.

    Probably checking too! Eventually, the group organizes and develops its own bylaws, policies, officers, pastor, etc . . and they are a church.

    And ready to help "mother" another group in a nearby region. In Wisconsin where I pastored, we had 7-8 generations of mother churches over 100 years.
     
    #23 Dr. Bob, Dec 6, 2003
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    It started as a "plant" (instead of a mother church, YOU were the de facto source). And developed into a full fledged church for certain.

    Remember, you do NOT need to have ordained clergy to give communion or baptism. That authority is derived from the church body and they may delegate such to you or John Doe. Same with authority to preach.

    Problem I see: one person started it. What happens when that person leaves (or is reassigned to Iraq)? Does it continue? Does it function as a body and get another man?

    THEN it is truly a church. If not, then it was a great temporary ministry for you.
     
    #24 Dr. Bob, Dec 6, 2003
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I'm glad you asked that question. I was pastor for about 8 months until a full time pastor arrived. BTW, Fellowship Baptist continued for about ten years. It disbanded only beacuse the US Army pulled out of Wildflecken. Fret not, an Americian Missionary came in and continued a ministry to the Germans! (The church is no longer called Fellowship Baptist)
     
    #25 Salty, Dec 6, 2003
  6. David Mark

    David Mark New Member

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    Who was the Pastor of the Church at Corinth? Where are the deacons and elders addressed? I don't see it at all. I am not saying they did not exist, but I don't see their prominence.
    Also in verse 9, I see that they were called into the fellowship of his Son.

    I have not discounted anyone's meetings as unacceptable. I am trying to add to or enhance, not take away from. If I could accomplish this in an established church, I would not be so frustrated.

    I would not have so many issues, if I could find a local assembly that I could fully agree with. But really that is not even my issue. What I would really like to see is just more honesty and humility. I could overcome almost all of my inhibitions if folks would just be honest about themselves. So many of my fears would be put to rest if I could sense some humble and honest attitudes in an organized group.

    We don't know everything.
    We are still learning.
    We don't do everything right.
    We are genuinely sorry we offended you.
    Sometimes we are too proud.

    Just more honesty and humility. I'm drawn to it in individuals, why should I not look for it in an assembly that is supposed to function as one body? And if I see the opposite what am I supposed to do?

    In church my mouth is shut tight. But here I am free to speak my mind with you while keeping your rules. I hope by now it's obvious that I am not here to make trouble. But it's here where I've grown. It's here where I am challenged to look deeper. It's here where I am constantly pushed back into scripture. It's been my consistent and sometimes painful activity here that makes me better when I go to church. Am I alone in this? Am I just too honest?

    When I am ignored here, I consider it somewhat a good thing, because I know you would jump on me in a heartbeat if I was off course. But what I like about that is no matter how hard you come down on me you would not have the kind of authority that would break me. Why do so many of you invest so much time here? Why?

    Honestly, it is you I long to meet with face to face. Your names are consistently in my thoughts. It's because you are so zealous, outspoken, opinionated, educated, experienced, and willing to let me speak. I would love to see with my own eyes how this faith that you preach affects your every day life.

    Sigh,

    Dave
     
    #26 David Mark, Dec 7, 2003
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Love you, man, and thankful for your opening your heart to us (that makes you vulnerable). Wish we could have a CYBER-CHURCH.

    The BB is, in reality, a true fellowship of believers where we can learn and study and grow and share. I know that I post a lot, but am amazed at what I learn from everyone else. Well almost everyone . . :rolleyes:

    Like TV and other media ministries, it can NEVER take the place of face-to-face fellowship and people down the block to bring in dinner when you're sick. We do not have a church with which we feel totally comfortable; we have opted for a church that is leaning our direction and has good folks that genuinely love the Lord.

    Many people do NOT have the luxury of a good local assembly. For all of them, the BB fills a tremendous void.
     
    #27 Dr. Bob, Dec 7, 2003
  8. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    ok if we are all ready to open up, my concern is that i have many differences in the church that i attend and it gets more infrequent. i attend a church that is more Armenian and less Calvinist and the church does have altar calls which i do not agree with. i vent my frustration about some of these issues here. if i had courage i would bring these concerns up, but like here, my grammar in speaking is as weak as my writing skills. it seems like most churches are armenian around here, or they are very liberal.
     
    #28 massdak, Dec 7, 2003
  9. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Ransom,

    You said: "They may be the most "spiritual" people on the planet, but if that "spirituality" goes against Jesus commands to be baptized and to observe the Lord's Supper, then all that "spirituality" is just a nicey-nicey form of disobedience."

    My reply: I Corinthians Chapter 13.
     
    #29 Michael Wrenn, Dec 8, 2003
  10. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    No, you are a church-plant - a proto-church in embryonic stage. I do this all the time. Work with a small group and eventually charter and incorporate as a church per se.

    But some never do. They are Bible studies and groups TRYING to be a church, but never quite get the "organized" part of it.

    It's NOT just a few folks preaching/teaching. It is much more.     </font>[/QUOTE]I was able to preach a message this past Sunday am in just such a group Dr. Bob. Afterward I discussed with them how things would be different were they to go further and organize into a church.

    BTW, the Lord extended to me what I beleive to be the greatest portion of liberty that I have felt. I took my sermon from Philemon 1.16 and it was as if all things went right into place. A wonderfully blessed exprience for myself at least.

    The man now involved in the work has been called to pastor a church and my visit was an invitation for myself and the group to consider me continuing the work.

    If this occurs, it means making the presence of a SGLMB fellowship in the area and alot of visiting to invite people to attend.

    Please pray for the group and for myself.

    Any advice and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #30 Frogman, Dec 8, 2003
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