Lacy Evans
New Member
Er... It seems to me that all of us but Taufgesinnter are agreeing with you and even he only disagrees about the remarriage part. Breath deep. It's OK. Even if we did disagree (Which we don't), we still love you.
Lacy
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Lacy
Interesting:
She committed adultery. You did not sin.
She divorced you. Assuming that divorce is a sin, and she divorced you, then still, you did not sin.
Jesus says that a man who remarries, EXCEPT FOR ADULTERY, commits adultery. Hence, if you marry, you would not be committing adultery, and you'd be the husband of one wife.
Taufgesinnter
New Member
It's also irrefutably clear that a man who is divorced from his wife due to her adultery or abandonment is not committing adultery if he remarries. </font>[/QUOTE]That is openly erroroneous, since Jesus never said that. He said "fornication" (porneia). If He'd meant "adultery" (moicheia), He'd have said so. That would have been unequivocal and unmistakable--but He didn't.
My question is this:
if a man is divorced (assuming the blameless mandate doesn't matter), is he still qualified to speak on marriage?
If he isn't qualified to do so, he isn't going to fulfill the ordained role of preaching the whole counsel of God.
Further, he wouldn't be setting an example to the flock, as is also his God ordained role.
If someone could biblically answer the above, that would be helpful. Thanks.
if a man is divorced (assuming the blameless mandate doesn't matter), is he still qualified to speak on marriage?
If he isn't qualified to do so, he isn't going to fulfill the ordained role of preaching the whole counsel of God.
Further, he wouldn't be setting an example to the flock, as is also his God ordained role.
If someone could biblically answer the above, that would be helpful. Thanks.
I wouldn't see why not, in the same manner that a man who has never experiences the loss of a loved one could still be qualified to speak on grief. Or in the same manner that a person who has never abused alcohol or drugs is still qualified to speak on the damaging effects of alcohol and drug abuse.
Bear with me here a bit:
Let's take a look at the Greek. The one who desires the office must be "blameless" and “the husband of one wife” (Greek – mias gunaikas andras) Compare this to 1 Timothy 5:19 which reads henos andros gune. The context here is within the present infinitive verb, and necessitates the translation as in the present tense. Presently, he must be the husband of one wife. If the man was divorced, lawfully (according to the NT context), then this should be taken into consideration. If the man was not divorced lawfully then remarried, biblically he and his newly wed wife are committing adultery and should not be considered for office.
I can find no biblical differentiation in regards to the abolity to speak with authority on a subject, based on one's matiral status.
John Wells
New Member
Gunther,
Let me use your words, with a minor adjustment and throw your question right back at you:
if a man has sinned (assuming the blameless mandate doesn't matter), is he still qualified to speak on sin?
If he isn't qualified to do so, he isn't going to fulfill the ordained role of preaching the whole counsel of God.
Further, he wouldn't be setting an example to the flock, as is also his God ordained role.
Who then can preach?
Taufgesinnter
New Member
Okay, fair enough. Fornication is sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other. A spouse who commits adultery is guilty of fornication. </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't exactly consider pre-marital sex (fornication) adultery.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
I have a problem with some of what you posted.
Therefore you should say they sinned (past tense) not that they are living in sin (present tense).
This is a problamatic statement because - you are stating this case is an ongoing, continual sin. If that were true they could stop sinning somehow. But how? They cannot divorce - divorce is a sin. They can only repent of having married and stay married.
Therefore you should say they sinned (past tense) not that they are living in sin (present tense).
I personally would accept that. While I wouldn't recommend that anyone put themselves in that position, if someone came from a marriage which they ended without a biblical reason, and they remarry without acknowleging the sin of their divorce, then they need to acknowlege that. However, most folks I know who ended their marriages for such a reason acknowleged that long before remarrying (it's often part of the healing process). But I could see why, in this case, they might be disqualified from a church office.
However, that still does not change the adultery issue. If someone has divorced because of adultery, their divorce is not a sin. It is the sin of the adulterer, not the one who was cheated on. Such a person would not be disqualified for this reason.
Er... It seems to me that all of us but Taufgesinnter are agreeing with you and even he only disagrees about the remarriage part. Breath deep. It's OK. Even if we did disagree (Which we don't), we still love you.
Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with taufgesinnter... I think the bible is very clear on divorce and remarriage I just think it is so big in our day that society sees it as okay and they think it is fine to not take your vows seriously even preachers.
The wedding vows we take say's until death do us part and I think that is for a reason.
Even if the man or preacher is not the reason for the divorce it still gives no right to remarry except by death even if it is for adultrey. If you did get a divorce for adultrey then you have biblical grounds for a divorce but not to remarry. It may not seem right but that is Bible.
The Bible is clear: Divorce is permissible in cases of adultery and abandonment. On remarriage, the Bible says only that a man who remarries is committing adultery, but it also says that there are exceptions (such as adultery).
A vow is a covenant between people. Covenants involve multiple parties. When the covenant is broken, the covenant ceases to exist.
The Bible does not say that.
That is NOT the Bible. The Bible does not say that a divorced victim of adultery or abandonment cannot marry. Additionally, the Bible says it is not good for man to be alone, and that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with lust in his heart than to remain single. I'm divorced. My spouse was caught in adultery, and chose to leave me to be with the other man. I've been divorced for several years. I did not sin. There is currently no marital covenant for me to keep. I've healed. I'm dating. I plan on marrying again, since I, as a male, have the desire share my life, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and sexually, with another. The Bible says it is not good for me to be alone, and that it is better for me to marry.
I am glad that you have healed however I still stand on the fact that there is no reason to remarry except death. I am also saying that I don't know if I could stay single especially if I was the innocent one in the marriage as you was. This debate started as can a divorced man be a pastor and I say only if he never remarries or if his spouse dies.
Taufgesinnter
New Member
Context, context, context!!!!
A MARRIED person who engages in fornication (sex with an unmarried person) is committing adultery. There's no way that a maarried person cannot fornicate without committing adultery. </font>[/QUOTE]The context was the Hebrew betrothal.
And the Bible nowhere says that anyone divorced for adultery can remarry. Nowhere at all.
(1 Corinthians 7:8,9) I say to the unmarried and to widowed that it is good for them if they remain single, as am I. But if they cannot contain themselves, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
I desire a sexual relationship with someone. Hence, Paul says I should seek to enter into a marriage.
That's when we should simply live to the best of our imperfect ability, get married if we must, and turn it over to God. Which is probably a good way to handle most sticky situations in life
There's no difinitive biblical exclusion on the topic that extends more to mastors than men in general.