Did Jesus drink Alchol?

in general, i think it is dangerous to feel %100 certain that orthodox jewish practice today is the same as that of the pharisees in the first century. undoubtedly, the writing down of the oral law would help to standardize practices, but that happened well after the time of jesus.

that being said, i do think jesus drank wine. these days one only needs to drink a cheekful of wine for sabbath kiddush - hardly an intoxicating amount. passover - today - is different: one must drink the better part of several cups of wine. in my experience, you WILL be slightly tipsy. oh, and then there's purim - where one must drink enough to not know the difference between "blessed is mordechai" and "cursed is haman". (my old rabbi said one could fulfill this mitzvah by drinking slightly more than normal and then taking a nap. few seemed to follow his advice). then there's simchas torah (last day of the feast of tabernacles) featuring often intoxicated, comparatively wild dancing with torah scrolls for hours on end.

Originally posted by Mike McK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Karen:
Sorry, Mike, but this is one of my pet peeves. Those of us who have been on the BB for a long time and think something has been talked to death should not expect those who just joined to think so.....

Karen

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I agree. That's why I often "bump" older conversations, because I'm interested to see what the newer posters around here think......... </font>[/QUOTE]Mike, good idea. Thanks.

Karen

I think if drinking was okay, Jesus would have made it easier for us to understand consumption. I believe drinking is wrong. I believe that Jesus never touched the stuff. I believe the world has taken scipture out of context to justify there our indulgence. I also believe that if drinking was okay, it would be a part of the church, after all, we do get together and fellowship and usually fellowship means food and beverages. Hint "Food On The Grounds." Also, why not a toast each and every Sunday morning before Sunday school starts. Not just to the adults, but to the kids, if drinking is okay.

Last, I believe the Bible does not give enough evidence for drinking to be okay. I am not a expert at this by no means, but I know what alcohol does to a person, and it only started with one moderate drink. Do you seriously think Jesus would give us something that could harm us? I don't think so.

Psa 104:15 And wine [that] maketh glad the heart of man, [and] oil to make [his] face to shine, and bread [which] strengtheneth man's heart.

what about wine makes glad the heart of man?

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
1Timothy 3:3 seems to say priests can't drink. And Jesus was a priest. I don't thgink he drank, ever, not a drop. But I don't see him telling anyone else they can't.

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Actually, it refers to not "being given to wine", which means getting drunk. It doesn't refer to abstinence, IMO.

It seems this dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.

Good! Can we bury it now?

I'll drink to that!

Oops!!!

don't y'all understand?!? the horse died of alcohol consumption...

Hold your horses!!! My Lord and Savior a wine drinker? You are going to turn me to being an agnostic!!! I would hope that my God holds Himself higher than His requirements for a Nazerite. And I will be very disappointed if He offers me an alcohol drink in the hereafter.

My Lord and Savior a wine drinker?

If he faithfully participated in a passover or sabbath meal, then yes, he would have been a wine drinker. He simply would not have been a drunkard.

Originally posted by Johnv:
Actually, it refers to not "being given to wine", which means getting drunk. It doesn't refer to abstinence, IMO.

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I agree with you, but I think it's important to note that the passage carries the qualifier, "not given to much wine". That implies that a little wine, or wine in moderation, wouldn't prohibit him from holding office.

I hate to debate, but the "much wine" is for the church elders. As far a 1Timothy chapter 3 quotes...

First the "bishop"...

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous

Then, the Deacons...

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Sorry, but the innerantist fundie in me had to say that.

Originally posted by Johnv:
I'll drink to that!

Oops!!!

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Originally posted by Gary D:
Hold your horses!!! My Lord and Savior a wine drinker? You are going to turn me to being an agnostic!!! I would hope that my God holds Himself higher than His requirements for a Nazerite.

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If you do some research on the Nazerite vow, you’ll notice that they cannot have any fruit of the vine – fermented or non-fermented. That means that Jesus would not have been able to drink grape juice. Therefore, for Jesus to drink the “fruit of the vine” at the Last Supper would be sin.

Obviously the Nazerite vow theory of abstinence is false.

And I will be very disappointed if He offers me an alcohol drink in the hereafter.

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Just tell Him, “No thanks. I’m a Christian.”

Originally posted by timothy 1969:
Psa 104:15 And wine [that] maketh glad the heart of man, [and] oil to make [his] face to shine, and bread [which] strengtheneth man's heart.

what about wine makes glad the heart of man?

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Hi, another Timothy here (not reflected in my user-name) ! Well, here's my 2 cents worth. One must understand that the water in those days were drawn from wells, and thus not very safe for consumption indeed. Thus, a little alcohol (wine) is mixed with the water like a disinfectant to make it safe enough for drinking ... Paul made this point clear too in his book of Titus to Timothy ... also, I believe that the concentration of alcohol in thw wine in those days isn't as high as what it is today ...

1 Tim 5:23(KJV)
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The fermentation process of wine then, as well as now, would result in an alcohol content of 11% to 14%.

Now, today we have "distilled" (hard) beverages which have alcohol content that is as high as 50%, but wine is not distilled. It is still made in the same process (fermentation) that it was back then.

I beg to differ. I believe that the alcholic content of wine in Bible times was much much lower. COnsider:

Example one:
Isaiah 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

People had to drink lots and lots and lots of wine (excessively) before they could get drunk.

Example Two:
Acts 2:13-15 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. (emphasis added)

And this verse makes more sense when we know that you had to drink lots and lots and over some time (like a whole day) in order to get drunk.

Example Three:
John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

This is the Jesus turns water into wine episode. The people already had alot to drink and they were still sober.

And it would be terrible to think that Jesus would turn drunk people drunker, (or sober people drunk.)! If this were the case, God would not have received any glory and the disciples would not believed on Him.
John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

And that would be in contradiction to God's word which He came to fulfill.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

(IS Jesus saying this to the newly married??? )

My contention is that the strong drink mentioned in the Bible is not the strong drink of today's standards. Not even the "weak" drinks of today's standard.

Our definition of "wine" is not the same as Bible "wine" which was really more like grape juice. "fruit of the vine" doesn't necessarily imply alcholic content.

Johnv seems to be right on. Yeast cannot tolerate alcohol levels of more than 15 percent. The actual amount of alcohol is determined by this upper limit and by the amount of sugar in the grapes. There is no reason to believe that wine was any different in biblical times than it is now. Obviously, the best wines would have been those that aged the longest, which would have had the full complement of alcohol. Younger wines might have had less alcohol.

But it was the custom, among Romans at least, to dilute wine with water. Not that this was always adhered to. Cicero, for example, was noted for drinking undiluted wine during his episodes of depression.

Grape juice, if left to its own devices, turns into wine.

Actually,
according to my sources, which are my professors who have Ph.D's in NT studies, wine in the first century was considerably less alcoholic than the wine we have today. I don't believe this can be proven Biblically, it is just a fact about the social setting of the NT. It does make since, however, since the longer that wine sits the more alcoholic it becomes. The people living in that day would likely have not wanted to wait too long for their wine. Consequently, new wine was that which had less alcohol, but a better taste, thus more was consumed. I will try to find out more about this so I can refer y'all to a book concerning it. But if I am not mistaken wine alcohol level was about 1/4 of what it is today, thus making it a beverage that could be consumed as we drink water or cokes today.
dr