history of the fundamental baptists

If you believe that the antichrist is going to rule over a one world church during a seven year tribulation period, I guess you would not be too interested in ecumenical relations!!!! I actually think I remember reading some fundamental baptist literature from the 1970's that said Graham was building the one world church of the antichrist because presbyterians were cooperating in his crusades!!!!!!In the 1970's if you went into a fundamental baptist church all the men had on blue suits they had short hair and the women had on prim and proper dresses from 1947.

 

They were all carrying old scofield bibles from 1909. If you went into an evangelical free or southern baptist church you would see some guy like Keith Green playing folk music on a guitar. It was amazing the contrast in methodology. However, the doctrine was the same. Fundamental Baptists believed in hell, divinity of Christ etc but so did the evangelical free church. I guess if you were young the evangelical free church was a lot more fun!!! I remember one evangelical free church that had a dance for the teenagers!!!

 

After the evangelical free teenagers were done dancing the youth pastor gave an invitaion to trust Christ as saviour. If the teenagers did not trust Christ they were warned that they would be cast into the lake of fire forever according to revelation 20 verse 15. So as you can see the evangelical free church was not liberal. You know sometimes you have different eras though. I remember reading that first baptist dallas had a dance for the teenagers a couple of years ago. It was the dance ever at first baptist. Poor old w a criswall he was over ninety years old, blind

 

and in a wheelchair when the dance was going on.I think another example was curtis hutson. You know he was a good preacher as far as going to heaven was concerned. But you know what he did? He attacked another fundamental baptist, I think his name was tim lee. He said tim lee was not fundamental baptist enough. He attacked Tim Lee because Tim Lee spoke in a southern baptist church. HORRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought to myself, how can hutson attack a wonderful man who goes over to vietnam and comes back with no legs.

 

One thing about that I think I remember reading that John R. Rice preached in Assembly of God churches. He also published sermons in the sword of the lord by walter a. maier. Do any of you know who he is? He was a famous Missouri Synod Lutheran preacher. Rice published his sermons on salvation. I also remember reading a writing by rice where he received a letter from a missouri synod lutheran. Rice considered the lutheran his brother in christ. True, as a baptist, rice would not sprinkle babies, believe in consubstantiation,

 

or believe in other lutheran beliefs, but on the great issues of the faith (hell, the blood of christ etc), he considered the lutheran minister a fellow christian. So, evidently rice was not as separatist as hutson. In fact the book, Bob Jones U fundamentalism and the separatist movement says that there was a falling out between jones and rice. Bob Jones even eventually broke fellowship with old john r. rice!!!!!

 

dear pastor Larry, I think you missed the point of my posts. I was not trying to write about all of fundamentalism in twenty minutes. I could sit here all night talking about the different groups. I was just giving a quick tour of some of the famous leaders. I know that all of fundamentalism was not Baptist. Actually, you sound pretty close to my view of things if you have read Christianity and Liberalism by Machen.Actually, Machen did not like to be called a fundamentalist. He wanted to be called a Christian. He was a very erudite scholar. I have George W Dollar's book in my library and he draws

 

comparison between Machen and Norris. Norris was weaping over sinners on the stage and Machen was a man of the library. Machen was a presbyterian. He was against premillenialism. In fact, in his book he says something to the effect that the reappearance of chillasm is a cause for concern.He drank alcoholic drinks. I think he also smoked a cigar. He was the greatest conservative Christian scholar of the 1930's. He went to a Billy Sunday meeting and he was happy that the Gospel was being preached. However, this mighty presbyterian theologian thought that sunday

 

was a circus freak. It is funny you would bring Machen up, he is one of my heroes. Machen would not agree with these new evangelical labels of yours. His position was conservative but he certainly was not a bob jones type at all. Also, I think my point was when I said "fundamental baptists say that anyone who is not a fundamental baptist is a new evangelical" was that everyone but bob jones people are new evangelical. I have never even heard the word new evangelical ever used by any christians but fundamental baptists.

 

I have been to many churches over the years and have never even heard the word new evangelical in these churches. Let's make a list of new evangelicals according to bob jones: Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, Chuckie baby Swindoll, John Macarthur, Hal Lindsay, John F. Walvoord, Charlies C. Ryrie, Adrian Rogers, Paige Patterson,Josh Mcdowell,

 

How do you get the writing area larger?I go down to the bottom and there is no more room to write.

 

You are right pastor larry, I stand corrected, Harold John Ockenga coined the term new evanelical I think it was in the 1940s. However, I think the new evangelical controversy is no longer an issue. It was an isue in that era because graham, carl henry and ockenga made it one. If you went to a church tommorrow and ask the pastor if he was a new evangelical, he would not know what you are talking about unless he was a fundamental baptist. I also think that Jerry Falwell's new image fundamentalism is basically identical to graham's new evangelicalism of the 1940s. I am sure that is how the leaders of bob jones u would look at it. Jerry Falwell said around the late 1990s that "in 25 years that group (hard core fundamental baptists) will no longer exist or be very small."I think his words are prophetic because the Sword of the Lord etc is not as powerful as it was in the 1970's. I would not be surprised if Liberty puts Bob Jones University out of business some day. Jerry Falwell is very smart. He knew that if he started a Bible College called Liberty Baptist Bible College, that was King James Version Only, no slacks or shorts on women, no movies, no hair over the ears, no Amy Grant music etc---he would have a school with forty students.Instead, by mellowing over the years, he is able to draw students from the huge 15,000,000 southern baptist convention. Think about that for a moment, the SBC is the size of New York city. Liberty is growing by leaps and bounds. I think Jerry Falwells legacy will not be Liberty or the moral majority but the fact that he was able to offer a refreshing alternative to the funnymentalism or funDAMNmentalism of ministries like Bob Jones, Sword of the Lord, and David Cloud etc. Jerry Falwell brought independent baptists out of the cult like mentality that was really prevalent in the 1970's. Praise the Lord for Jerry Falwell!!!!I really respect that man.Jerry Falwell is not a kook a look like Jack Hyles. He is not a nutcase like the people that run Bob Jones University. Long live Jerry Falwell.If I ever have kids they are not going to be sent down to that CULT in Greenville, they are going to LIBERTY! I am now going to contiune my list of Christian leaders who are new evangelical according to the baptists at bob jones university: Howard Hendricks, W. A. Criswall, George Truett, BH Carroll, A T Robertson, E Y Mullins, D L Moody, A W Tozer, J Dwight Pentecost,Vernon Grounds, John Nelson Darby, George Mueller, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Macintosh, C I Scofield, James Brookes, Arno Gaebelein, Sir Robert Anderson,Arthur W. Pink, Alexander Whyte, James Stalker, George Matheson, George Macdonald, Machen, Ian Maclaren, T Diwitt Talmage, Thomas Hardy, F B Meyer, G Campbell Morgan, Jack Van Impe, John Henry Jowett, Phillips Brooks, Arthur T Pierson, A B Simpson, J Wilbur Chapman, William Edward Biederwolf, General William Booth, E M Bounds, Andrew Murray, D Martin Lloyd Jones, D James Kennedy, Oswald T Allis, BB Warfield, Charles Hodge, AA Hodge, Jonathan Edwards, A C Dixon, John Hagee, Oral Roberts, R G Lee, Wilbur Smith, Erwin Lutzer, Joseph Stowell, C S Lewis, Oswald Chambers, Watchman Nee, Clarence Macartney, Donald Grey Barnhouse, Jame Boice, Jack Hayford, Harold John Ockenga, T T Shields, Oswald J Smith, Franklin Graham, J Vernon Mcgee, Louis T. Talbot, Walter Wilson, John Wesley, Martin Luther, John Calvin, St. Augustine, John Chrystosym, George Whitefield, Charles Wesley, and any other Christian who is not a fundamental baptist. The true Fundamental Baptists are: Harold Sightler, Jack Hyles, Bob Jones famiy, John R. Rice, Dallas Billington, Robert Sumner, R L Hymers, Robert T Ketcham, B Myron Cederholm, W B. Riley, Dave Hyles, Fred Phelps, J Frank Norris, Bill Rice, Tom Malone, George Alquist, Hugh Pyle, Lee Roberson, Rodney Bell, Paul Chappell, Raymond Barber, Keith Gomez, Shelton Smith, Clarence Sexton.So as you can see the Christians outnumber the Fundamental Baptists.