Tongues

Amen, Molly and Gwyneth (et al). What bothers me about tongues is we have no evidence of Jesus ever speaking in tongues that I am aware ofin the word. The bible says (I Cor. 14:5) that tongues should be interpreted for the edification of the church.

My nephew attends a pentacostal church that although it has preached the gospel the few times I visited at his request, they would have someone invariably roll their eyes back and begin to speak in something that can't be a foreign language. Nobody has ever bothered to interpret so I don't think the orator was acting in a Biblical sense. I'm not making fun.

The same scripture talks about the gift of prophesying being greater than the gift of tongues and there are no prophets any more (as far as I am concerned). So, if there is no longer a gift of prophecy then the gift of tongues may have also gone by the board - so to speak. Just MO.

 

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

A friend of mine who follows the Charismatic teachings says that this line of scripture is the reason why a prayer language should be developed between yourself and God. He seems to believe that prayer in a known language is acceptable as well as prayer in a language that you have developed that only the Spirit and God understand. I guess his reasoning is that God knows what we need before we know it, but we don't know how to ask for it...

It's confusing...

 

this verse is talking about the Holy Spirit making groanings for us which cannot be uttered (by the human mouth). if they cannot be uttered, how do you utter them? also, if they don't make sense to anyone, then what good are they? 1 Cor 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. how does spewing forth a bunch of stuff that nobody understands glorify God?

the tongues were for a sign for the unbelieving Jews. in all cases in the Bible where tongues were spoken, there was no need for an interpretor because "every man heard them speak in his own language." Acts 2:6

tongues wasn't a miracle of the mouth or of speaking. it was a miracle of the ears. the people who "spoke" in tongues were speaking in their own language and everyone that was listening "heard them speak in his own language".

tongues are part of the apostolic signs. God did not grant the apostolic signs individually (ie just tongues), He granted them all (tongues, healing, prophecy, ability to drink poison and live et al).

 

Yep... I'm right with ya The Harvest...

After re-reading my post I found that I didn't say that I knew his "explanation" was incorrect.

My bad!

[ January 24, 2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: JamesJ ]

 

I believe that most tongue-speakers are on an ego-trip. They think they have something special and they flaunt it!
If it is a gift, then why do they seek it and strive for it? Aren't all gifts freely given as God sees fit?
If anyone is a tongue-speaker and they do not have any of the fruits of the spirit, what are they accomplishing? It's all about "self".

 

I had always thought when Paul was writing to the Corinthian Church on the use of tongues he was not talking about what happend at pentacost but using a foreign tongue in an assembly. It would be like someone standing up in a American english speaking church and start praising God in Chinese.

( tongues=other languages )
1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:27-28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

A different language makes sense not gibberish.

[ January 24, 2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: swordsman ]

 

in the Bible(KJB1611),when someone(Paul)was speaking in tongues he was speaking in understandable languages.
why in verse four does it say that after they recieved the Holy Ghost (a proficied event)that they all began speaking with other tongues(languages)
verse 3 is literal languages,so also than is verse1.
"if you spiritualize 1st, than you tell spiritual lies."

[ January 30, 2003, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: JOHN3:16 ]

 

Has anyone here considered the curse in Isaiah
28:9 - 15, with regard to al the modern-day
tongues and the--can't think of what they call it--
faling backwards.

 

That verse tells me that I do not need to speak in tongues because when I don't know how to pray about something; the Holy Spirit intercedes for me.

At times when I have had a heavy burden, so heavy that all I could do was sob before the Lord; the Holy Spirit interceded. I did not need to utter a word, indeed, I could not have done so had I tried.

Abiyah
I could be wrong, but I believe the verses you mentioned in Isaiah 28 pertained to the drunkards of Ephraim. Drunkards also talk in unknown tongues (i.e. slurring so you can't understand them) and fall backwards.


Sue

 

I don't understand why this subject draws so much attention if those who are going to post only reads what they want to read and ignores other things.

Mark 16:16 is Jesus words. He said one of the signs of the believer will be speaking in tongues. All nay sayers and those who say they have ceased is disputing the Lord himself.

On the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out the tongues God gave were understandable to bystanders. This was a miraculous event. THese tongues were to show unbelievers that God was pouring out his spirit as Joel prophesied.

When Peter went to Cornelius' home and these gentiles were filled with the spirit the Bible says they Spoke and tongues and many prophesied also. Tongues and prophesy are two separate things. When the followers of John The Baptist in Acts 19 was filled with the spirit they too spoke in tongues. This is why Pentecostals say this is the sign of the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

This is a gift. It endues people with power as Jesus said in Acts 1. When a person is born again the Holy Spirit comes upon them but not in them.
Just like the Spirit of God came upon men in the Old Testament times. This has nothing to do with salvation.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthians he said he was writing to them to correct their misunderstandings and here lies the problem. People read this so they say that all tongues ceased or not necessary but they need to read on and not pick and choose the scriptures.

Paul said there were different kinds of gifts and different kinds of services but all came from the same spirit. The Pentecostals call them the Nine Gifts of the spirit with one of the Gifts the gifts of tongues and the other the gift of interpretation or Tongues and interpretation.
This is where God speaks to his people. This is also what Paul was talking about if one gives the tongues another should interpret. This gift is the only tongues that will edify the church because people will understand what is being said.

When Paul said tongues were for the unbeliever these are the tongues a person receives when filled with the Holy SPirit. Again this is the sign that they have been filled.

Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. He said he prayed in tongues but he was praying mysteries unto God. That he was speaking by the power of the Holy Spirit. That a person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally so yes tongues are for personal strength spiritually.

Why did Paul say he would rather someone prophesy? It was because a prophecy is spoken in an known language.

If God supernaturally reveals through an individual something about a sinner life do we not think that person would turn to God. Yes.
This is why these gifts should be important to the church instead of discarded because people don't want to believe in the supernatural or are afraid of it.

Paul said that we are not to forbid speaking in tongues and prophesying but so many churches have in their minds greater Apostolic authority then Paul.

There are excesses in everything. No the charismatic churches are wrong when people chatter like monkeys. This edifies no one but themselves. This needs to be done quietly between them and God.

Paul said tongues would cease when that which is perfect has come. So many people try to say this is the Bible but that is so far fetched. The Bible had not been put together at the time Paul said this and I doubt if Paul even knew there would be a Bible. The true explanation of what Paul is saying is at the end of all things These gifts will cease because we will be with Jesus and in need no longer of the supernatural gifts.

if tongues were to cease then Jesus would have so mentioned this in Mark. He would have said these signs will temporarily follow the believer but he did not. HE said these signs will follow believers.

For those who say Pentecostals are too full of emotion then let me draw your attention to the fact that King David got so excited when he was dancing before the ark that he danced his clothes off and the children of Israel danced and sung and rejoiced after God overthrew Pharoah and the Egyptian army in the Red Sea. How about all the excitement when they marched around Jericho and shouted praises to God in such an exuberant way the walls fell down. Also what about the band and the choir that went before the Israeli army and the praise caused God to fight the battle and the enemy was defeated. I doubt if they were very quiet. Then we have the commotion in the upper room on the day of Pentecost when the Holy SPirit was poured out. People said the 120 were drunk and then again after the apostles received their first persecution they met and prayed and rejoiced and the Bible said the place was shaken.

Serving God is an emotional thing. There is nothing in the Bible that should tell us we cannot be emotional in worshipping the Lord.