Revelation 22.17

Wonderful exegesis! I hope those who currently see it as a free will call will recognize how beautifully your explanation of this passage harmonizes with the other scriptures (such as Romans 8, 1 Corinthians 12:3, etc.).

 

So, are you saying that there is no elect, and that the call is for everyone who has ears and hears the invitation?
THAT is what Revelation 22:17 says!
That is what the New Testament Says!
That is what the Old Testament says!

Or, are you saying that the Bride is the Elect? If yes, I challenge you to prove it!

 

So there is an invitation in scripture? Now all we have to do is find the first bullitin.

So salvation is a chance... I see...

 

This is unbiblical. The existence of the elect is clear in Scripture.

And THAT is what Calvinism says, which you should know by now. You have certainly been around long enough that you should have laid aside your own opinions of what we believe and accepted our clear and unequivocal statements of it. There is no good reason for you not to have done so. Your perpetuation of this myths only allows to continue the conversation that should have long been over.

 

Hi Frogman;
It never ceases to amaze me how Calvinist can take something so simple and make it so complicated that no one can understand it.I find it interesting that although you are trying to explain "whosoever" again as only those who God wants to hear and not just anybody, is where I believe Calvinist who rely on there on illogical explanation of the Word. I only ask you to look at what you are doing.You are taking something that is as simple as the nose on your face and transforming it in to what you want it to says. It does not say only those who hear it . The verse says those who hear.those who thirst and whosoever.In fact it is so clear that it's undeniable.The last phrase is not the inclusion of those who just hear but refers to all.
Are Calvinist afraid that if to many people see through there misguided logic they will abandon it?If what you say about this word that is so mistranslated then why doesn't the Bible clearly explain this?.What I mean by "clearly" is without further explanation.
Romanbear

 

There seems to be an overture to read the manuscript of the final Revelation by any human being. [Revelation1:3] This not a call to only the elect to read otherwise He would have referred to the church or His elect. Admittedly, the sinner would not understand the vast majority of spiritually, discerned truth found in this wonderful vision to John.

In Revelation 22:17 suggest that not only the Holy Spirit but the church {bride} is calling the lost into the fold. Both the person who hears the call and the thirsty soul is saying come. Apparently, if that soul is thirsty he or she has not yet been regenerated, otherwise that person would have their thirst quenched. The 'whosoever will' suggests that a person has a will with which to respond to His gracious call. This will is not bound by God hiding the Gospel to some, and that being true we call that will free.

Also, God is forcing some {mysterious elect} to involuntarily drink of the 'water of life,' in fact He says they that person drink without price. There is no Calvinistic compulsion found as we close the reading of this verse. God is not forcing anything; He clearly says, ' . . . let him take' and once again there must be factored into salvation the commitment of the human agency. The Greek word is (labeto) meaning 'to use strength; seize, retain, keep, lay on hand, obtain or retain.' Select one or more synonyms. Anyone who wills can seize ' . . . the water of life, freely. This Greek word for take is in the {aorist, active imperative tense} The grammatical tense suggests an act that takes place in time but with continual action or ramifications.

In the mind of God and the Apostle John the Holy Spirit is, therefore, not calling out to some alleged, sovereignly elected few, but rather is offering His Presence to any soul who will come for refreshment. In the case of the hearers in John 5:40 these sinners would not come to Him. It was not that Jesus disallowed them from coming to Him, because they were of the non-elect. 'And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life.'

 

Romanbear,

There is nothing confusing here. The Bible says "whosoever will." You focus on the whosoever; we focus on the will. You seem to forget that people must "will" to come to Christ. Apart from the unilateral, sovereign work of God through the Holy Spirit, no one will "will" to come to Christ. In election, no one is being kept out who desires to come. Whosoever will may come. That is the calvinist position. It is your misunderstanding of the simple phrase that has led to your confusion.

 

There seems to be an overture to read the manuscript of the final Revelation by any human being. [Revelation1:3] This not a call to only the elect to read otherwise He would have referred to the church or His elect. Admittedly, the sinner would not understand the vast majority of spiritually, discerned truth found in this wonderful vision to John.

In Revelation 22:17 suggest that not only the Holy Spirit but the church {bride} is calling the lost into the fold. Both the person who hears the call and the thirsty soul is saying come. Apparently, if that soul is thirsty he or she has not yet been regenerated, otherwise that person would have their thirst quenched. The 'whosoever will' suggests that a person has a will with which to respond to His gracious call. This will is not bound by God hiding the Gospel to some, and that being true we call that will free.

Also, God is forcing some {mysterious elect} to involuntarily drink of the 'water of life,' in fact He says they that person drink without price. There is no Calvinistic compulsion found as we close the reading of this verse. God is not forcing anything; He clearly says, ' . . . let him take' and once again there must be factored into salvation the commitment of the human agency. The Greek word is (labeto) meaning 'to use strength; seize, retain, keep, lay on hand, obtain or retain.' Select one or more synonyms. Anyone who wills can seize ' . . . the water of life, freely. This Greek word for take is in the {aorist, active imperative tense} The grammatical tense suggests an act that takes place in time but with continual action or ramifications.

In the mind of God and the Apostle John the Holy Spirit is, therefore, not calling out to some alleged, sovereignly elected few, but rather is offering His Presence to any soul who will come for refreshment. In the case of the hearers in John 5:40 these sinners would not come to Him. It was not that Jesus disallowed them from coming to Him, because they were mysteriously of the non-elect.

 

Romanbear,

Your statement is well taken and is within His plan for the ages. His will is still being carried out in spite of the innuendo of some who have embraced error and cast espersion on His concern for all the lost. You are not in 'confusion' as characterized by our brother in Christ. While our brother can turn a few words to enlighten Augustinian theology and human explanation we suggest he still remain open to guidance. We remain in all Christian respect toward the other theological explanation.

 

I wish to correct a sentence written on February 14 at 11:27 a.m.

The third paragraph should read, 'Also, God is not forcing some {mysterious elect} to involuntarily drink of 'the water of life.' In fact, He says, that--that person can drink without price.

 

Then you admit that by man's will something happens?

 

Brother Dallas,

I agree with you there is an on going thirst that you and I as believers do have with respect to the things of God. But Revelation 22:17 is not speaking to this issue. Your statement is clearly what theologians call, eisogesis.

Revelation 22:17 a,b is speaking to the Holy Spirit's work/ministry and to the witness of the church {Bride}in calling to the world of lost ones.

The rest of the verse c,d,e,f and g is speaking to the unsaved people. Thus we have the words, 'And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.'

Maybe you can 'beat the drums' and see if any Calvinists have any quarrel with my explanation of ' . . . let him take of the water' a clear call to place in gear the human agents will. 'And whosoever will . . . ,' also is a Divine injunction to affirm His call to everlasting life.
My regards . . .

 

You just get here??? This has always been my position. Man's will is regenerated and enabled and man comes. But man apart from that regeneration will not come. He will freely choose to reject. This is so basic to everything we have said that it is remarkable that you are just not coming to this realization. How many times has it been and how many times have you just blown past it, refusing to see what it in black and white in front of you.

Apparently not ... at least not according to the evidence you are giving here.