Husband of one wife.....

Was that a vicious false accusation leveled against me, or was it a response to someone else's post, possibly thus even made accurately?

If you were in fact making incredibly rude and slanderous remarks directed against me because of the post I had put on the thread immediately before yours quoted above, I probably should have ignored you completely--but go ahead, tell me which Scriptures you are talking about.

If the post of yours that I'm quoting and responding to had nothing to do with me at all, please forgive me for misunderstanding!

 

Actually it's "one-woman man" but I otherwise agree.

 

To deny a person the opportunity to do what God has called them to do because of what they did before they were saved is hypocrisy, at the least.

*Shaking the dust from my feet*

I'm done here. Carry on with your oh, so righteous and blameless selves.

 

Deut 24:1-4, Matt 19:9, 1 Cor 7:15

 

Hi JohnWells. You said; "Scripture is explicit that "unfaithfulness" (Matt 5:31-32) and abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Cor 7:15) constitute acceptable grounds for divorce..." Luke 16: 18 shows that you are explicitly wrong! Luke 16: 18 says;

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." Luke 16: 18

Luke 16: 18 illustrates a situation where a husband has divorced his wife and married another woman. This husband has abandoned his first wife, entered into a new relationship with another woman and then married that woman. He has committed adultery against his first wife and he has left her. As a result, his first wife is now a divorced woman.

Now, if YOUR statement above were true, then this man's first wife should be free to remarry due to her husbands unfaithfulness. HOWEVER, Jesus said the exact opposite of this woman in Luke 16:18. There, the LORD said that this woman, who was divorced by her husband, may NOT remarry, because if another man marries her, he commits adultery! Did you catch that? Read it again slowly to be sure. Then please comment. Thanks! latterrain77

 

latterrain77,

You abide in the "what God desires" world on this issue, and refuse to embrace "what God allows" ("because of their hardened hearts"). Please put Deut 24:1-4 in your perspective! Did Moses go against the will of God, or did he follow God's instruction?

 

BTW, what God desires is "be ye therefore perfect," but what He allows is "I will remember your sins no more!" You would do well to apply God's standard and not your own to the qualifications of a pastor/deacon.

 

I totally agree with you!!!

 

You are inventing a connection that isn't in the text. Jesus is saying the same thing twice to illustrate that what is true for a husband is also true for a wife. Most translations separate the two with a semi-colon for good reason - the latter does not refer to the former, but is another way of phrasing the same principle to illustrate that neither the husband nor wife are immune to the provision. Both are bound by marriage, and neither is free to remarry if they are divorced (more specifically, if they are divorced for any other reason than unfaithfulness, as explained in other parallel texts).

1. Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.

2. If a man divorces a woman and another man marries that woman, that other man commits adultery.

Your invented connection between the two would cause a contradiction with the other texts that clearly state the exception about divorce regarding unfaithfulness.

 

Here’s the dilemma:

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." Luke 16: 18

“I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Matt 19:9

Does Jesus contradict himself? If I go with your argument, it would strongly suggest a confused Jesus! What must we conclude then? The Matthew statement must expand upon the Luke statement. Go to Deut 24:1-4. Did Moses disobey the will of God, or did Moses act upon the will of God?

 

Well that reaction certainly seems a case of the frying pan calling the skillet a dark item of cookware...


...but at least you're in favor of women pastors!

 

Hi npetreley. Thank you for your comments. You said; " You are inventing a connection that isn't in the text." Not at all. Below is Luke 16: 18 from the most respected and much used Bible translations:

" Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Luke 16: 18 (kjv) This is the version I quoted in my prior post.

" Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Luke 16: 18 (niv) Reads the same and works with the comments I pointed out in my prior post.

" Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery." Luke 16: 18 (nasb) Reads the same and works with the comments I pointed out in my prior post.

You said; " Most translations separate the two with a semi-colon for good reason..." Actually, you are wrong. The most widely regarded and respected translations; The King James Version, the NIV, and the NASB (among many others) do NOT contain a "semi-colon" as you suggest (see above for example). A few of the "modern" translations do (darby, msg, for example).

You said; "... the latter does not refer to the former, but is another way of phrasing the same principle to illustrate that neither the husband nor wife are immune to the provision." Not according to the KJV, the NIV, the NASB, the Amplified Bible, the New Living Translation Bible, and others. I checked the Greek too and guess what? The word "divorce" ("put away" kjv) in 18a is "active" while the word "divorce" in 18b is "passive." In other words, the Greek illustrates a man divorcing in 18a and a woman divorced in 18b (the opposite of what you suggest). You can check it out yourself on blueletterbible.org and you will see that this is so (don't forget to click on the little link that says "tense"). You will see that the KJV (and other) translators had it right while you have it wrong.

You said; "Your invented connection between the two would cause a contradiction with the other texts that clearly state the exception about divorce regarding unfaithfulness." Not at all (see above). The contradiction seems to stem from your misunderstanding of the "exception clause" along with your repudiation of the KJV, NIV, NASB and other translators. Why don't you tell me what you think the "exception clause means? Please cite the chapter and verse that mentions the exception clause too. Thanks npetreley.

 

Hi JohnWells. So, does a remarriage of the "first wife" in Luke 16: 18 result in adultery or not? Here is Luke 16: 18 again for your immediate review;

" Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

You said; " You abide in the "what God desires" world on this issue, and refuse to embrace "what God allows"... But in Luke 16: 18 it is very clear that what you say "God allows," is what GOD says is adultery! Please comment.

You said; " Please put Deut 24:1-4 in your perspective!" Actually, Deut. 24: 1-4 is put into perspective by Luke 16: 18, Matt. 19 and elsewhere; it was "never so" (Matt. 19: 8). Thanks JohnWells! latterrain77

 

My comment is not important. Jesus' comment about this verse in Matt 19:9 says it all.

In Deut 24:1-4 did Moses disobey the will of God, or did Moses act upon the will of God by proclaiming and allowing these things to be carried out? Please comment!

 

Thanks for the quotes. First as to the fact that the second word for divorce is passive, it must be. The wording refers to one who is divorced. The question is, is this the same woman in the first part of the verse?

Note that the NASB says, "he who marries one who is divorced". If you were correct in your interpretation, it would have to be translated, "he who marries THE one who is divorced". In other words, the person to whom I was referring a moment ago. That is not what the verse says.

Note the NIV. It says, "and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery". If it meant what you want it to mean, it would have to be translated, "and the man who marries THE divorced woman commits adultery." In other words, the man who marries the woman to whom I was referring a moment ago.

 

latterrain77,

Please answer my question in my 9:58pm post above and this one which I repost:

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." Luke 16: 18

“I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Matt 19:9

Does Jesus contradict himself? If I go with your argument, it would strongly suggest a confused Jesus! What must we conclude then? The Matthew statement must expand upon (and take exception to) the Luke statement. You really would like the Luke and Mark statements to stand on their own, but unless you agree that the Matt 19:9 statement expands upon them, then you create an erring, self-contradicting Jesus!

 

I echo the question by John Wells. I also find some things particularly interesting about Deuteronomy 24. Let's take a look at it...

Let's look at Luke 16 again.

Again, here are the contrasting views of the same principle in Luke 16:18:

1. If you divorce your wife and marry another woman, you commit adultery.
2. If you marry a divorced woman, you commit adultery.

If the above really is meant to convey that the principle applies to the woman as well as the man, then why doesn't it say this:

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and any woman who divorces her husband and marries another man also commits adultery." That would be a more natural way of expressing that sense of "they're both in the same boat", wouldn't it? Yet that's not what Jesus said. Why not, if this interpretation is correct?

Deuteronomy 24 answers that question. There is no provision for the woman to divorce her husband. So the only way to word the comparison would be the way Jesus worded it -- from the perspective of a divorced woman in BOTH cases. It's adultery if you divorce a woman and marry another, and it's adultery if you marry a divorced woman. You got between one of two people who were still one flesh with each other at the time, therefore you commited adultery. But are they still one flesh with each other after one or both of them have commited that adultery?

Now -- let's add in that "exception clause" (emphasis mine).

Why would Jesus make marital unfaithfulness an exception? How does that fit with the Mosaic law? Let's look at the relevant section of Deuteronomy:

To paraphrase the section: If the woman is divorced and marries another, and then her new husband divorces her or dies, then she must NOT remarry her first husband -- that is an abomination. In other words, not only is the first husband no longer bound to his first wife after she remarries, he is FORBIDDEN to marry her again even if her new husband dies. Something about her becoming "one flesh" with another man has forever altered her relation to her former husband.

Now re-read Matthew 5:32 in light of that...

Obviously, "marital unfaithfulness" means someone became "one flesh" with another person, right?

 

npetreley,

Bullseye!!! Excellent post!

 

Well that reaction certainly seems a case of the frying pan calling the skillet a dark item of cookware...


...but at least you're in favor of women pastors! </font>[/QUOTE]You know what happens when you assume.......

 

You said; "My comment is not important." Meaning what? Yes it's adultery? or No, it's not adultery?

You said; " In Deut 24:1-4 did Moses disobey the will of God, or did Moses act upon the will of God by proclaiming and allowing these things to be carried out? Please comment!" I already answered it. But I'm pleased to comment even further after you have answered the question above. I'll post the question again immediately below for you review;

So, does a remarriage of the "first wife" in Luke 16: 18 result in adultery or not? Here is Luke 16: 18 again for your immediate review;

" Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Thanks. latterrain77