OSAS? (An example)

Once I am born into my family, there is NOTHING I can do about it no matter what I do. You can't unring a bell. </font>[/QUOTE]You've obviously lived a charmed life where strife and dissolusionment do not exist.

 

Belief is perception! Your belief in God has its basis in your perception of God.

I, like you, have "unbelieved" a mountain of things that were previously believed to be true! Let's start with that childhood friend that we swore an oath with that we'd always stay in touch with, believing we would. Well where is that friend now? I haven't a clue if that person is still living, let alone where or how to communicate with him. I have no choice but to remember him, but if I passed him on the street, I would not recognize him nor he me. I'll bet you have former beliefs just like that.

When I was growing up a dominant "belief" was that the moon that circles this planet was made of cheese. As a kid I believed it because the adults assured me by "agreeing". That belief went by the wayside, debunked in the light of truth!

When I was a kid, the sound barrier was believed to be such that anything traveling faster than the speed of sound would be utterly destroyed when passing through it. Now we humans are working to develop machinery that will break the light barrier so that we can travel to distant planets, stars, and galaxies in deep space within a normal human's lifespan. When I was a kid the Jet Propulsion engine was just becoming a reality, and formerly believed limitations to travel have been debunked by the light of truth!

Yes Frogman, beliefs can and do change when confronted by the truth! Those who do not accept this simple principle remain locked in a "time-warp" and become paralized by their unchanging beliefs.

Faith in God and especially in Jesus, God's only son, is an evolutionary thing. It must change as more and more truth is revealed to you. No the object of the faith need never change, but one's perception of that object will change as more truth is revealed.

 

The ONLY memory I have is of a small boy whom I liked very much. I have no knowledge or memory of this person as an adult friend, we simply did not get that far.

No, I am talking about how our belief(s) change(s), and that belief is based on perception...the knowledge we gain, regarless of the source, about the object of our belief.

Belief evolves from not having belief to having initial belief (seed faith) to possessing sustained belief (faith that results in eternal life for the believer).

In some, somewhere between seed faith and mature faith, events occur that impact our perception leading to a change the direction and or scope of our faith. The Father of Lies, who is the master of deceit, covertly pulls the props right out from under one's faith in Jesus Christ, in the same manner that he deceived Eve then Adam into thinking they could become Gods. That of course does not change God, but it does change our perception of God. When that happens, one can lose faith and not have the foggiest hint of what happened. Our God is then remembered in the same manner that I remember my childhood friend, e.g. He was a wonderful little God.

Faith that is nurtured in truth continues to grow with our knowledge of God. Hense, "study to show thyself approved unto God..." With this kind of Growth, our faith does not remain the same as our initial faith, because it is now made strong by knowledge of God which God is all too eager to share with us. Even so, even the strongest faith is subject to testing by Satan. And God may very well allow Satan to test us in the manner that He allowed Job to be tested. Many will succumb to that form of testing and lose their faith in God. I personally know of 3 ordained ministers who were so tested, and two of them lost their faith in Jesus,the 3rd has been restored to a position in life greater than previously held.

So, yes there are those who lose their faith, and subsequently lose their salvation into eternal life.

 

Brother, According to the word of God you are speaking of those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift, who have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost.

I disagree with you based upon what is found above.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]Then you disagree in vain, for that is what I've been saying. The scripture you posted does not say one cannot fall away or take his hand from the plow. It says they cannot be renewed if they do!

So, the scriptures even renounce OSAS! The scriptures allow that some will lose their faith and not have eternal life.

 

Me2,

"Renewed" implies making the old new by restoration such as cleansing, polishing, overhaul, disassemble/reassemble, etc. Replacing implies throwing out the old replacing with NEW. "Washing of regeration" is "restoration of the old to a new condition. When we are born again, we do not receive a new spirit, our flesh could not handle that kind of transition because the spirit is the life of the flesh. If the old spirit is removed the flesh dies.

The point is that we are given only one spirit, and we retain that spirit lest the flesh die, but that old spirit becomes a renewed spirit through the renewal process of believing and continuing faith.
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Frogman,

Then for what purpose did Jesus die? Was it not to take the sins of the world upon himself, to "die in sin" so that sin could be buried for all time, then He arose victorious over sin and death. By believing that Jesus paid the penalty for each of our sins, we can rest assured that sin will not be held against us, and since as believers we will not be judged anyway (John 3:18), and since if we confess our sins he is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:8-10). Paul said it this way,

True, however, Eternal life is actually given in heaven, but we have the promise of eternal life through our faith in Jesus Christ while we live this natural life that is limited to 120 years. It is appointed unto all men once to die then the judgment.(Heb 9:27) Since Jesus said that believers will not be judged nor cast into the lake of Fire the second death, we and take upon ourselves the mantle of eternal life. But it is our faith condition when we pass from this natural life and stand ready for judgement, that determines our eternal destiny. We stand ready for judgement, but because of our faith in Jesus, we are sheep separated from the goats. The goats get judged and cast into the lake of fire. The sheep go to be with their shepherd for eternity.

Again, where is the Christ? He is in Heaven, at the Father's right hand. When we die from this natural life we too find ourselves in the place of judgement, and it is our faith condition upon arriving there that determines whether or not we belong to Jesus. So between now and then through our own stupidity we could renounce or deny, or simply starve our faith in Jesus to death, so that when we die we do not have faith. We will then be seen as goats and separated from the sheep we will be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Like I've been saying, we by faith believe we have eternal life in Jesus in accordance with Jesus' promise. We through our faith accept the promise that we have eternal life, when in truth that final determination is not made until our passage through the first death when our faith condition (the mark) will be revealed and we are separated sheep from goats. It is then that eternal life becomes a "KNOWN" factor. Until then we live by faith not by sight!

 

And your definition of "Christ within you" is?

By what means does the spirit of Christ become "within you"?

By what means does the spirit of Christ remain "within you"

Yes, my friend, it is by your individual unwavering FAITH in Christ that you have his spirit within you. There is no other power under heaven whereby God or His Son enters into or indwells humankind. There is not one human that ever lived that cannot have faith. But there are many who do not have FAITH in God or FAITH in Jesus the Son of God, the Messiah. It is because of God's grace that ye are saved THROUGH FAITH, and not of yourself, SALVATION is a Gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Jesus paid for our sins, which we can repent from; and we cannot do enough to earn salvation. Leaving FAITH ALONE as the only means of SALVATION. Whether or not we have faith in God and Jesus is a matter that we each determine for ourselves.

With all the evidence and multimedia presentations and spectacular miracles that show the power of God in His great love for us, there are still great multitudes of people who refuse to believe in God by their own choice. They could just as easily by their own choice accept the evidence and be saved through faith. The real mystery is, WHY DON'T THEY?

[ September 09, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]

 

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]By what means does one become a son, if not by FAITH ALONE?

 

You use the phrase, but have yet to provide a dictionary style definition for it.