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Judas--saved or lost?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by blackbird, Oct 13, 2003.

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  1. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    I say lost! Although windows of opportunity to be saved were "opened" and then shut--

    E J Daniels(that famous evangelist) said that Judas "kissed Heaven's door and went to hell!"

    The name "Judas" means "The Praise of the Lord"---oftentimes in Bible days the parents would name their children in anticipation of what they would eventually be in the eyes of the Lord.

    I wonder what Judas' parents were thinking when they named him that??

    Maybe: "Will he rival John the Baptist?" A hopeful to fill the evangelists shoes one day?? A First Century "Billy Graham?"

    They named him Judas---Praise of the Lord---"Look what we're giving you, Lord!!!"

    But Jesus called Judas--"Son of Perdition!"-- The son of hell! The son of the devil! Better had he never been born!

    It boggles the human mind as to WHY Jesus would select Judas as Apostle! Regardless---Judas is given opportunity to follow Jesus! For the next three and a half years Judas sees Jesus preaching, teaching, healing, raising the dead, feeding the hungry, casting out demons and devils, confronting the Scribes and Pharasees. Jesus even gave Judas the power to do the same. Judas had first hand knowledge of Jesus and His ministry.

    Now, the big question is---did Judas repent? Did he go to Heaven or did he go to hell?? Remember now, what Jesus had to say about him---the Son of Perdition! Remember how when Jesus was in the Garden praying and he tells the Father--"Those thou gavest Me I have kept and none of them is lost, but the Son of Perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled."(John 17: 12)

    Well, what about Matthew 27: 3?? It says there that Judas "repented himself!" What about that?

    The Greek word used here in this text(Mt 27:3) is the word--"Metamellowmai"---and it means:--to express the mere desire that what is done may be undone(he carries the "jingle change" back to the Pharasees)accompanied with regrets or even remorse, but with no effective change of heart. A selfish dread of the consequences of what one has done.

    True, genuine repentance toward salvation is the Greek word---"Metanoeo"--and it means "regret and turning away by a change of heart brought about by God's Spirit."

    After Jesus' resurrection and ascension--when the Apostles were choosing Judas' replacement--they understood the fate of Judas.---they understood through the prayer of the Apostle Peter in the selection of the replacement--that Judas had gone to "his own place."(Acts 1: 12-26)

    So---one who was thought to be "Praise to the Lord"---never lived up to his name! He never praised, did he?? He betrayed, didn't he?? Scripture tells us on several occasions that Judas(Praise of the Lord) "sought opportunity to betray Him!"---He had opportunity to repent(Metanoeo) but the closest he got was repenting(metamellomai)--

    The last word that Jesus had for Judas there in the garden was---"Friend!"---opportunity to repent(Metanoeo)---but opportunity knocked for the last time---what a tragedy!!! To go to Hell--your name meaning "Praise to the Lord"--and the last word you heard the King of the Universe say to you was "Friend!"---he's in hell---and if there's conversation going on there---perhaps someone asks, "Judas! What were the last words you remember hearing right before you died? We want to know!" and Judas--with salty tears rolling down those unrepentant cheeks would say, "Jesus called me Friend! The only person who ever called me that---and I blew it"---don't blow your opportunity for repentance(metanoeo) today friend!

    Judas: The man who kissed Heaven's door and went to Hell!"

    Your buddy,
    Brother David
     
    #1 blackbird, Oct 13, 2003
  2. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Afterwards he owned his sin with "an exceeding bitter cry," and cast the money he had received as the wages of his iniquity down on the floor of the sanctuary, and "departed and went and hanged himself" (Matt. 27:5). He perished in his guilt, and "went unto his own place" (Acts 1:25).
     
    #2 dianetavegia, Oct 13, 2003
  3. amixedupmom

    amixedupmom Guest

    once saved always saved though....... you can't lose your salvation....
     
    #3 amixedupmom, Oct 13, 2003
  4. Gunther

    Gunther New Member

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    Lea, he was never saved to begin with. Christ said in John 6 that he was a devil.

    No, Judas had NO chance of being saved. There is no CHANCE with God.

    He had a front row reservation in hell.
     
    #4 Gunther, Oct 13, 2003
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    From a sermon by Gary Amirault

    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/judas.html

    Just offering some different perspectives on this issue!

    Diane
     
    #5 dianetavegia, Oct 13, 2003
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    From a sermon by David Wilkerson located at: http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1990s/ts920615.html

    The Truth About Judas - Betrayer of Christ 1992
     
    #6 dianetavegia, Oct 13, 2003
  7. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    He was never saved, the bible says satan enterned into him, satan can not posses a christian. God uses even unbeleivers to accomplish His will.
     
    #7 donnA, Oct 13, 2003
  8. martyr

    martyr New Member

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    By all evidence we are given, Judas was an apostate. Unfortunately, there are quite a few pastors and pew warmers that fit into this category.
    We definitely need revival in this world. May the Lord give us wisdom and discernment in these end times.
     
    #8 martyr, Oct 13, 2003
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Judas was definately lost. But he was not lost because he was a theif, or because he was more wicked than other men, nor even because he betrayed the Lord. Judas was lost because he was an unbeliever.

    It has been pointed out that Jesus said Judas was a devil. It should also be pointed out that this statement was in response to Peter's statement that,

    "We believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

    Peter beleived that Jesus was the Christ and he assumed all the other apostles did as well. But Judas did not for the text says,

    "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

    Though Judas was so remorseful for his wicked deed that he went and hanged himself, he still failed to do the one thing necessary for salvation - believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ! He is a prime example of the truth expressed in the hymn, "Rock of Ages":

    "Could my tears forever flow, could me zeal no respite know; these for sin could not atone, thou must save and thou alone."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #9 Mark Osgatharp, Oct 13, 2003
  10. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Judas was a 'follower' of Jesus because Judas expected an earthly throne and notoriety in the then and there. When Jesus didn't over throw the goverment and appoint Judas and other's as rulers.... Judas tried to force Jesus into action. Judas chose the world instead of Jesus. He wanted earthly gain more that eternal love.

    My favorite hymn says it all:

    I'd Rather Have Jesus
    by Rhea Miller

    I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold,
    I'd rather be His than have riches untold;
    I'd rather have Jesus than houses or lands,
    I'd rather be led by His nail-pierced hand.
    I'd rather have Jesus than men's applause,
    I'd rather be faithful to His dear cause;
    I'd rather have Jesus than world-wide fame,
    I'd rather be true to His holy name.
    He's fairer than lilies of rarest bloom,
    He's sweeter than honey from out the comb;
    He's all that my hungering spirit needs,
    I'd rather have Jesus and let Him lead.

    REFRAIN
    Than to be the king of a vast domain
    Or be held in sin's dread sway;
    I'd rather have Jesus than anything
    This world affords today
     
    #10 dianetavegia, Oct 13, 2003
  11. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    He treasured the treasure more than he treasured the Treasurer!
    Blackbird
     
    #11 blackbird, Oct 13, 2003
  12. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Saved. Jesus told the twelve disciples (including Judas) that they would be sitting on the twelve thrones of Israel. (Matthew 19:28) Unless Jesus was wrong, Judas will indeed in Heaven.

    Another question would be if Judas would have died before Christ, then would he not have died under the old covenant? And then, what happened to souls who died before the resurrection of Christ?
     
    #12 ScottEmerson, Oct 13, 2003
  13. Gunther

    Gunther New Member

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    Scott, that is why Christ chose Paul. As Peter said, another would take his office. Paul was God's choice to do just that.

    It would be nice to see you do a little exegesis on what was mentioned, since your position lacks theological and biblical support.

    "unless Jesus was wrong", nice work there. :rolleyes:
     
    #13 Gunther, Oct 13, 2003
  14. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    OT Saints were saved the same way we are---the Liberty Bell of Ephesians 2: 8-9 rings from before the foundations of the world--"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." From Adam all the way to the last person who'll ever be born in the future.

    Judas was a hipocrit! He was a lost person acting like he was saved! The church pew is full of Judas'! Pulpits are full of Judas'!
     
    #14 blackbird, Oct 13, 2003
  15. GODzThunder

    GODzThunder New Member

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    I am going to go on the assumption that the devil entered Judas, that is posessed him because he was lost! No true child of God can be posessed of a devil or demon. Even OT saints were tormented by but never posessed by demons!

    though I must admit that any Christian is capable of betraying Christ, we do every time we sin! We are not above his sin, guard your testimony and walk well!
     
    #15 GODzThunder, Oct 13, 2003
  16. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    The problem is that Jesus told the twelve specifically that they would be the ones to sit on the throne. It wasn't a "the twelve apostles will sit on the twelve thrones," but "you."

    It's quite plain what Matthew 19 says. It's plain what Jesus says. If you would care to exegete it differently go ahead.

    Because, undoubtedly, people will try to explain away the words of Christ, which is the same thing that fundamentalists accuse liberals of doing.
     
    #16 ScottEmerson, Oct 14, 2003
  17. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    I don't believe that Judas was saved. Just because he went along with Jesus and the disciples does not mean that he believed what Jesus preached. Perhaps he felt that he was good enough in himself. I don't know.

    I believe that Judas wanted to force Jesus to set up the kingdom. I think that he was interested in the physical Israel and did not understand about the spiritual significance of the cross. In fighting against God's plan he became a pawn God used, not in the way that Judas wanted, but in the way that God had ordained.
     
    #17 Terry_Herrington, Oct 14, 2003
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I say "We can;t possibly pretend to know for sure". Since Paul tells us not to judge a person's salvation, I presume that would apply to Judas as well.
     
    #18 Johnv, Oct 14, 2003
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