Does Jerry Falwell speak for all Evangelicals

I don't thinks so ... but he was given this credit on 60 Minutes tonight.

American Christian Zionists say they are now a more important source of support for Israel than American Jews or the traditional Jewish lobby.

“It is my belief that the Bible Belt in America is Israel’s only safety belt right now,” says Rev. Jerry Falwell, one of the leaders of the Christian Right. That’s the bulk of Evangelical Christians; Falwell claims to speak for all of them.

“There are 70 million of us,” he says. “And if there’s one thing that brings us together quickly it’s whenever we begin to detect our government becoming a little anti-Israel.”

Falwell began to detect just that in April 2002 when President Bush called on Israel to withdraw its tanks from Palestinian towns on the West Bank. So Falwell shot off a letter of protest to the White House, which was followed by a hundred thousand e-mails from Christian conservatives. Israel did not move its tanks. Mr. Bush did not ask again.

“There’s nothing that would bring the wrath of the Christian public in this country down on this government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a critical matter,” Falwell says. The “Christian public” is, he says, Mr. Bush’s core constituency.

“I really believe when the chips are down Ariel Sharon can trust George Bush to do the right thing every time,” says Falwell.

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I don't believe that all Evangelicals are dispensational premillianalist ... maybe 1/3 in my opinion. Here is the whole article from the program:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml

“It is my belief that the Bible Belt in America is Israel’s only safety belt right now,” says Rev. Jerry Falwell, one of the leaders of the Christian Right... “There are 70 million of us,” he says... “I really believe when the chips are down Ariel Sharon can trust George Bush to do the right thing every time...”

It seems clear that Rev Falwell is attempting to imply that he's speaking on behalf of all ev Christians. Sorry, Rev Falwell, I have respect for you, but I would call that statement arrogant presumption. You don't speak for me, thank God.

I am not in the USA, but Mr. Falwell doesn't speak for me either.

If Israel, the nation, does evil, it will pay the price. The only interest God has in Israel, the nation, is that they need the Lord. Without Christ they perish.

I thought it was rather interesting what the Jews had to say about that statment. Sort of a quote..."If the Christians are for us, they predict a rather bleak future. They predict our demise, except for a few who become Christian."

Cheers,

Jim

..."If the Christians are for us, they predict a rather bleak future. They predict our demise, except for a few who become Christian."

Lets encourage Jews to return to their land so 1/3 can be slaughtered. Sounds anti-semetic to me.

From the above article. Inflammatory towards Christians & Jews, IMO, but no surprise coming from the liberal press.

Falwell believes most Muslims want to live in peace but, he says, the lines have been drawn. Christians and Jews are on one side, Muslims on the other and, he says, those lines were drawn more than a thousand years ago.

“You wrote an approving piece recently about a book called ‘Unveiling Islam,’” says Simon to Falwell. “And you, the authors of that book wrote, ‘The Muslim who commits acts of violence in jihad does so with the approval of Mohammed.’ Do you believe that?"

“I do,” says Fallwell. “I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough of the history of his life, written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was a violent man, a man of war.”

“So, in the same way that Moses provided the ultimate example for the Jews and same way that Jesus provided the ultimate example for Christians, Mohammed provided the ultimate example for Muslims and he was a terrorist,” asks Simon.

“In my opinion,” says Fallwell. “And I do believe that - Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses. And I think that Mohammed set an opposite example.”

What frightens Alfer is that he hears much of Falwell’s world view reflected in the words of the Bush Administration.

“When we hear expressions like “the evil ones,” this kind of black and white view of good guys, the bad guys,” says Alfer.

But as long as Jews are the good guys in this representation, this is good for the Jews, isn’t it?

“It’s not good for the Jews. It’s not good for the Jews," says Alfer. We have to get God out of this conflict if we’re going to have any chance to survive as a healthy, secure Jewish state."

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Get God out out of this conflict?

And BTW, Falwell speaks for me & a lot of evangelicals. I'm not afraid to stand up & say he does. Basically the same stuff I reiterated in my other posts on the Road Map.

I will never be ashamed to stand behind Israel. One day Israel will own all the land God promised, not just the tiny little scrap the Arabs are trying to take away from her!

Go ahead, throw your darts at me once again. When I stand before the King of Kings & Lord of Lords, I'll not have to hang my head in shame for opposing God's everlasting covenant He made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I've said all I intend to say on this subject.

One day Israel will own all the land God promised, not just the tiny little scrap the Arabs are trying to take away from her!

Joshua 21
43 So the LORD gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their forefathers, and they took possession of it and settled there. 44 The LORD gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their forefathers. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the LORD handed all their enemies over to them. 45 Not one of all the
LORD's good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

I'll not have to hang my head in shame for opposing God's everlasting covenant He made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

http://www.eschatology.org/articles/israelofgod/replacement.htm

I've said all I intend to say on this subject.

Get God out out of this conflict?

Hey, that might not be a bad idea. It seems whenever we call upon God to solve our earthly problems, His answer to our plea is "I've blessed you with the ability to solve your own problems, so please do so". Maybe we should have listened to our Heaenly Father the first time, instead of twisting his ear as though we were like kids constantly asking their parents for ice cream.

Go ahead, throw your darts at me once again.
Like Joshua 21:45 that says in regards to God's promises to Israel, every one was fulfilled. Notice, the word WAS fulfilled. What the Israelites did after that was up to them. Although I don't consider it a dart, just a difference in opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

[ June 09, 2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

Grasshopper,

Lets encourage Jews to return to their land so 1/3 can be slaughtered. Sounds anti-semetic to me.
_____________________________________________

Coming from a Jew, I guess it does sound anti-semetic, doesn't it?

Good grief,

Jim

I believe Rev. Falwell does NOT speak for many Christians (Evangelical or otherwise). In some cases, he's done more to widen the gaps between many people and perhaps cause some non-believers to think that maybe all Christians are just like him. While I believe that he has his good points, he's not one of my favorite of the famous ministers out there. To be fair though, I have seen him recant on some issues or say he was wrong at times. Talk show hosts and news anchor people seem to like him and interact with him quite well, regardless of how they view his religious beliefs.

“There’s nothing that would bring the wrath of the Christian public in this country down on this government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a critical matter,” Falwell says. The “Christian public” is, he says, Mr. Bush’s core constituency.

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He speaks for me on this one.

quote:
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“There’s nothing that would bring the wrath of the Christian public in this country down on this government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a critical matter,” Falwell says. The “Christian public” is, he says, Mr. Bush’s core constituency.
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He speaks for me on this one.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


And for me also.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

“There’s nothing that would bring the wrath of the Christian public in this country down on this government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a critical matter,” Falwell says. The “Christian public” is, he says, Mr. Bush’s core constituency.

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While I have no doubt that this is generally true (although I'm not sure about the core constituency bit, unless we're talking about those who call themselves Christians, which is a wot lot more than there actually are) I do not count myself among those who feel this way about the nation of Israel. Of course, I didn't vote for Bush last round, and I'm not likely to this go, so . . .


Falwell doesn't speak for me on many a subject and I really don't see that he speaks for "the Christian community" at large. Segments of it, sure.

Is this quote attributed to that HORRIBLE story on 60 Minutes last night (a repeat from earlier in the season)?

The very same.

I saw that story, and was completely disgusted with both the comments and the presentation. If a Christian is a supporter of Israel only because they believe an Israeli state will usher in Christ's return, then I have a real problem with them.

If a Christian is a supporter of Israel only because they believe an Israeli state will usher in Christ's return, then I have a real problem with them.

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Me, too. But that is part of the disinformation being spread around by those who are anti-Israel.

Just think of it for a moment. If the lie can be perpetrated that Christians support Israel because it will usher in the return of Christ, that accomplishes several things:

1. It gives a bad name to Christians & fosters hatred towards Christians by all sides.

2. It places Christians in the position of appearing to be anti-Semitic, as alluded to in the article & in this thread:

"If the Christians are for us, they predict a rather bleak future. They predict our demise, except for a few who become Christian."

Lets encourage Jews to return to their land so 1/3 can be slaughtered. Sounds anti-semetic to me.

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But, isn't that part of the liberal agenda? Isn't that part of the radical Islamic agenda, as well?

I don't know about you, but I know the reason I support Israel and the reasons people I know support Israel, and it has nothing to do with ushering in Christ's Return.

When Jesus comes back is unknown to anyone, really, we just have signs to look for. No Christian I know who believes in the pre-tribulation rapture believes there is ANYTHING anyone can do to "force" or "coerce" Jesus to come back on a timetable any different than what is in God's plan. How absurd! Just shows how the left has a disconnect.

But, if those who are anti-Christian and anti-Israel can foster these lies and make them appear as truth, they will have achieved their goals...to drive a wedge, to inflame & incite. Unfortunately, there are Christians who are blinded and can't see through these lies being perpetrated.

The reason I am for Israel has everything to do with Israel being God's chosen people, that God gave them the Land that is in dispute, that Israel is the apple of God's eye, and Israel is part of my heritage as a Christian....

and.....

You can't make deals with terrorists. Those enemies of Israel over there are terrorists. They are the same enemies who went to Iraq and attacked our troops. They serve the same purpose & same god as those who flew planes and killed thousands of Americans.

It is a double standard for the US to say we are fighting a war against terror but turn around & expect Israel to stand down & do nothing.

Over 10,000 Israelis have been injured and/or maimed for life since the beginning of the Intifada declared by Arafat. A terrorist bomber isn't just evil for killing innocent people. A terrorist bomber is diabolical, too, packing nails, screws, metal shards into bombs to maim & injure & kill the maximum amout of innocent people possible.

Just wonder if attitudes will change when those homicide bombers start their evil deeds on American soil. And they will. It's only a matter of time.

I don't know about you, but I know the reason I support Israel and the reasons people I know support Israel, and it has nothing to do with ushering in Christ's Return.

I can only speak for me. I support the right of Isreal to exist sovereignly, and it has nothing to do with my beliefs about the second coming of Christ. I figure Jesus is capable of handling that without our interference.

But if I also support the existence of a Palestinian state, that in no way means I don't support Israel.

However, if both of them continue to act as they have in the past few days, I may well decide to support neither of them.

Amen Sis!!!

I did not see the 60 Minutes story that Y'all are referencing. I support Israel because they are God's chosen, and my Lord is the Jewish Messiah, the fulfillment of all prophecy. It will be to the Mount of Olives where He will return as He left, and it will be from the throne of David that He will rule with all His Saints.

I am for Israel because it is right and just to be for Israel. The same engrained anti-semitism which supports that myth of the displaced Palestinian, is the same anti-semitism which appeased the arabs by issuing the White Paper, setting aside the Balfor Declaration, and stopping Jewish immigration to Palestine, just as the Nazi's rose to power in Germany.

The anti-semitism which was directly culpable in the deaths of Jews in WW II, would once again apease the arabs, and lodge rabid dogs in Israel's front yard. Which forces Israel to offer land for peace, when women and children are being directly targeted by butchers.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

Originally posted by Caretaker:
The anti-semitism... Which forces Israel to offer land for peace

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You really like to talk smack about those who are not dispensational premillennialists being anti-Semitic, don't you? By the way, the modern state of Israel is a sovereign country. No one has the military force in the Middle East to force them to live at peace with their Palestian neighbors.

Good Scripture reference you provided, Grasshopper. It's too bad that our dispensational premillennialists friends don't accept that verse literally. Here's are some more:

Genesis 15:18 (ESV)
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates,

Exodus 23:31 (ESV)
And I will set your border from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the wilderness to the Euphrates, for I will give the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you.

Deut. 11:24 (ESV)
Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours. Your territory shall be from the wilderness to the Lebanon and from the River, the river Euphrates, to the western sea.

Joshua 1:4 (ESV)
From the wilderness and this Lebanon as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites to the Great Sea toward the going down of the sun shall be your territory.

1 Kings 4:21 (ESV)
Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt. They brought tribute and served Solomon all the days of his life.

So we have conclusive proof that God fulfilled His territorial promises to Abraham and his descendants. Looks like an open and shut case to me.

And, no, Jerry Falwell or any dispensational premillennialist does not speak for me on the subject of eschatology.

Now if someone wants to make a case soteriologically for the Jews, that's a whole different area. But as for the land, God's already fulfilled that promise in the Old Testament. He never promised to fulfill His territorial promise to Abraham two times. He did promise to bring Judah back from Bablyonian Captivity and He fulfilled that promise, too, but He never promised to give them back all of the land again over which Solomon ruled.