Freewill here? Not a chance.

And who is the one who stated that quote: Read book IV of PAradise Lost again to see what Satan is pondering and discussng. You rip the Biblical passages out of context, so it is no surprise you do the same with Milton. (And it's "Better to reign in Heav'n than serve in Hell."

And you make a false dichotomy in your last paragraph. I have never met an true Arminian who denied the powero f GOd's true, sovereign gift of grace. So stop it.

 

WOW, all that for making two smilies.
Yet, when I right 3 pages, no one responds. Go figure

 

I like it either of these two ways. 'I would rather reign in Heaven than serve in Hell; or I would rather serve in Heaven than to reign in Hell.' As for me I want nothing to do with Hell. I'm convinced that we need to share the Gospel with all sinners. Hell is not the place to make a final home.

 

i have to add another one: man's condemnation. each born individual does not choose to get condemned! they are already condemned even before they had the chance to think. how? well, it has to do (or caused by) God's sovereignty. sure there is also no free will in condemnation. and then no free will for those condemned and then only some will be, with no free will, be saved?

talk about caring...

 

AKI, you said,

Jesus does not agree with you!

 

90% of communication is body language.

Bro. Dallas

 

90% of communication is body language.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]That's right. If you had posted a picture of a pretty girl with the 3 pages of text, I guarantee people would have responded.

 

The free will of human beings is a Scriptural truth. Augustine, Calvin, and Luther's view of "the Bondage of the Will" is bogus and a sham. To get started read: Deut. 30:19; Isaiah 65:2,12; Isaiah 66:3,4; II Chron. 30:8; Proverbs 1:24; Acts 7:51; Romans 10:21; and John 5:40.

When reading Deuteronomy 30:19 one hardly gets the idea that God unconditionally elects people to Heaven and Hell. The writer says, 'I call Heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life, that both you and thy seed may live, that thou mayest love the Lord thy God.'

In this passage, Deuteronomy 30:19, there is not even the thought that the Holy Spirit is telling the people to believe. We know, however, that He is always present in guiding people toward faith in the Lord God. [Revelation 22:17] Nevertheless, God says, ' . . . choose life.' God is not autocratically doing this on behalf of people, but rather it is human beings making their well thought out decision to believe or not to believe in Jehovah God.

Also, under the new covenant era God gives people/sinners the choice. [John 3:17-18]

 

A better start is: John 1.17; from here one can build a sound theology and can begin to view the O.T. shadow founded upon the truth revealed in the N.T.

Bro. Dallas

 

Brother Dallas,

I think you 'pulled a punch' but you did not do the 'rope a dope' or a 'dodge and weave

 

Brother Dallas,

Sorry for the mistake.

I think you 'pulled a punch' but you sure did not do the 'rope a dope' or the 'bob and weave.' I think you totally 'got our of the ring' as far as those splendid Scriptures that I suggested as to the freedom of the will. Please, I wanted a TKO.

Ray

 

What mistake?

I'm not much of a boxer....sorry

First of all you left off alot of "context" it is 'revealing' that this conveniently occurs in the favor of your theory of free-will.

O.K.(one-knockout)

at least read vs. 18 and 20

Again you disregard context. If you will read context of these you will note, even as in Deuteronomy God is speaking to His people, not to 'unbelievers' but to 'believers' a people who had been offered Grace but refused it and was given the Law and covenanted with God to perform all the words of His Law and now is the consequences (found in our reading) of their inability to do so. Yet the promise is (again in our reading) the return of the blessing of Israel in the Kingdom. So much is to be learned, if only you could get beyond the flesh and see the Spirit; the things which the Grace of God would open to your heart's blessing are unsearchable.

S.O.K. (Second knockout)

Imagine my elation, again you have chosen scripture when read in context speaks of the Kingdom blessing of Israel. Please read vs. 6, 7, 9, (look close at vs. 10, 11, 12, and 13).

T.K.O (Third knockout)

This chapter is obviously speaking to a son; none who are lost found here in this context; also speaks of wisdom, which Christ says is justified of her children.

F.K.O.(Fourth knockout)

Again context shows us this to be speaking to the Jews, God's chosen people; further we find at vs. 53 sheds light to the fact these were entrusted with the Law of God. More context; vs. 54 shows us the nature of man in the flesh.

If you had bothered to read context here you would have found that Israel had set about to establish their own righteousness and had not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. How you say? because they were living according to the Law, they were bound by their efforts in the flesh to please God and failed to see the peace of God in His righteousness manifested in the Christ; which before were the promises of which others who did rest in God were persuaded of and able to embrace and confess.

C. H. Spurgeon has already dealt with this scripture to prove it's uselessness in your arsenal. To paraphrase him, what does Christ say? 'And ye will not come to me that ye might have life' (herein is the T.K.O.) For if of your will you do come to Him why does He here say 'ye will not'? Again context (vs. 44) weakens your claim)....no wonder you guys don't stick with scripture much but meander off on the weakness of men such as Calvin and others, denying yourselves to be weak sinful creatures even as these, though you nor I have never committed murder, does this mean it is not within our ability and even our nature?

Look here at vs. 41.

Again vs. 40: why is it they 'will' not come to Him? It is simply because of their deprived nature...note he says here also that they might have life...offering a ray of enlightenment upon the beloved position that man is not born dead, if not why is it they should even be directed to seek life? Why would Christ say, ye might have life?

I have already dealt with this scripture some weeks ago. The whosoever will is he who is athirst and he does not receive this thirst from his sinful nature, but from the Holy Spirit upon regeneration. Then he will come.

Again you conveniently disregard context as found at vs. 19, but to read this would again prove the total depravity thing and disprove the free-will thing, so I see your strategy and understand.

Why do I feel like I have kicked you while you were down?

I guess you wish I had stayed out of the ring now, huh?

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Brother Dallas,

I must say that I smiled a lot at your post; it made my day.

Your complaint that I did not understand 'context' was merely your 'rope a dope' ploy to try to get through this friendly, ten round fight. Context has nothing to do with this except that all of these references have to do with lost souls. This is the only issue. Did you expect that each reference would have the same exact historical background with the same group of people? Down deep I don't think you could convince yourself of this. Anyway you must be a veteran of the ring that is in his fading years of boxing; there is no punch there.

Check again: Deut. 30:19; Isaiah 65:2,12; Isaiah 66:3,4; II Chronicles 30:8; Proverbs 1:24; Acts 7:5l ; Romans 10:21; and John 5:40.

In each case the context is people who had lost souls. Secondly, they had a choice-a free will. Thirdly, God has made each of these peoples responsible for their final destiny of either Heaven or Hell.

Let me add one verse that I read in the Psalms this morning. Psalm 86:5. 'For Thou, Lord art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto ALL those who call on Thee.' Notice, God is good because He is impartial and just and receives all who seriously look to Him for grace. Secondly, He is looking for the sinner's human response to His overtures of love toward them.

I could be insensitive but I will just say that you were saved by the bell and it's only the end of the first round.

Brother Ray

 

I am glad you enjoyed the previous post. As you know I mean no offense and take none. Brother I do not believe these scripture are arbitrarily speaking to lost souls, especially where the children of Israel are concerned.

We must take care, it is no greater burden to judge the salvation of these in history than it would be for you or I to partake of this judgement upon our contemporaries. In this there is a group of God's Children who do out shine many others, because they place no attempt at judging others' experience, while others cannot but make assumptions all founded upon the theological systems of men.

I am young yet and though not in A-1 shape I am in fit enough condition to continue in this round and many more by the Grace of God.

You still cannot convince me these scripture are valid as speaking toward the lost and are valid to speak alone. The whole of Scripture are to be considered, as you know.

Again, I am glad to have made you smile. The Ps. you quoted is beautiful and fitting a beautiful day here in S. Central Ky. yet it does not say that man is able from himself to call unto God. But it is as always those who have been implanted with that desire of God who call upon Him for Salvation and none other.

It really is that simple, all are in the condition of the Lost, none seek after God, but haply if they should feel Him then they seek His Grace, but never before would a carnal man admit to himself nor anyone else of his need for salvation. On the contrary he becomes offended, and this offense rises from his depraved heart.

Bro. Dallas